Maxwell Network Rendering Licenses

[Devin Johnston]

I'm one of the people who is participating in Maxwell’s Alpha testing program which is swiftly moving into Beta testing at the end of next month. It has become very apparent that Maxwell isn't going to be a cheap render engine because it is their intention to limit the number of CPU licenses per copy to 4. That means that if you have a render farm of say 50 CPU's your going to be paying $12,500 to equip your farm with copy's of Maxwell once the program officially comes out. This fly's in the face of most of the 3rd party render engines that are available like Vray and Final Render, and it makes me question what their motives are, and if there just in it for the money. Maxwell was originally presented as a new render engine for Architects, but at this price I don't know how many Architecture firms are going to be willing to pay for it. I would like to know how many of you would be willing to pay for this product and if there are any other software manufacturers you are aware of that does their licensing like this.

[Ernest Burden III]

I'm one of the people who is participating in Maxwell’s Alpha testing program which is swiftly moving into Beta testing at the end of next month.

 

Never use the words 'Maxwell' and 'swiftly' in the same sentence.

 

By the time the Cinema plug comes out we will all be too worn out from hopping up and down with anticipation to care anymore. I'ld rather buy vRay.

 

Are you saying that they would expect one full-price licence per four CPUs? No 'site-licence'? That would be a bad idea, as just about everybody does multi-user site licencing for businesses. So would I be willing to pay full-price X 1/4 farm capacity? Nope. I'm self-funded, couldn't justify that even if the images look great. So does the output of many other engines.

[Sawyer]

Why would anyone? Especially why would anyone cross over?

[Devin Johnston]

Are you saying that they would expect one full-price licence per four CPUs? No 'site-licence'?

 

 

That's exactly what I'm saying!

 

This is what doesn’t make since to me, why would they price themselves out of the very market that they want to get into. The reason this has come up is because they are raising the price from $395 per license to $595 at the end of the month. This is because they are moving into Beta and I guess they feel like there software is worth more now. There not offering any special site license or discount and when the subject is raised in the forum they just say that's the price if you want to use the software and no one argues with them. Even if the program was 5 times faster than it is right now you wouldn’t be able to render any animations without some kind of render farm. It's just crazy!

[mbr]

I've been really surprised by the hype that Maxwell has generated. So far, I've not seen any images that are better than Final Render, Vray, or Brazil, or even Mental Ray for that matter. The render times are pretty absurd.

The only conclusion I could come up with was clever marketing and a nice site (all the other renderers have horrible sites). The 'intro' price was simply a logical marketing ploy that is used in any field. It's the 'cost of entrance' to an already established market.

 

They could be looking to recoup some of the $$ that they lost in the presale. But that would be horrible marketing. One of the main reasons MR is not popular outside of Hollywood is the licensing. Even with the 'satellite' licensing with 7.5, it's still not anywhere reasonable.

 

No of it makes sense to me. MR would dominate if it had decent licensing and documentation. It is 'free', after all.

 

So Maxwell perplexes me, almost daily. So many are excited, but I don't know why. I love the idea and simplicity, and hope the others take note, but so far it's just on the same playing field as the others.

 

Just my 2cents, but I keep wondering because so many are promoting it.

 

We'll see, if it does become as fast as the others and there isn't a licensing issue, I won't mind paying the extra $200. But for now, Final Render will be coming up with a substantail service pack soon, so I'll use what I've already paid for until I am 100% sure something else will be better.

 

Thanks for posting that, it is a HUGE concern in this industry.

[Fran]

Last I checked, Next Limit was not a non-profit organization. Hell yes, they're in it for the money. Just like we are. If you don't think you can make Maxwell pay for itself (which all worthwhile software should be able to do), then don't buy it. Just because it's good for architecture, doesn't mean it should be cheap. If you're using Max or Viz, you can use radiosity if expense is a concern.

 

If I had 50 cpu's waiting for something to do, I'd darn sure scrape up $5k and pre-order enough licenses to keep them busy. Problem is, I'm 46 cpu's and $5k short at the moment.

[Devin Johnston]

Fran do you think there is no difference between a full license and a render node license? I think if this were the case architectural vizuilization woulden't be as widley used as it is today. The idea that you should pay the exact same price for both license types is what I find unreasonable. You said that worthwile software should be able to pay for it's self and I agree, do you think it's possable to do this in Maxwell's current state?

[Fran]

Hi Devin,

 

All I know is that when you buy one license, you can use up to 4 cpu's and 8 threads to do cooperative rendering. It is possible Next Limit will create a price structure based on render nodes, has anyone asked? I personally think that 10 render nodes per license would be fair.

[Ernest Burden III]

We used to just have 'computers'. In fact, almost nobody had computers, we had A computer. And most people didn't even have that.

 

Now I'm feeling inadequate because I only have three capable CPU's at my disposal, and even worse, only three threads.

 

Time to spend more movey?

[Hazdaz]

Seeing as how it isn't even in BETA, I really think they will eventually come up with some kind of pricing structure for a renderfarm. Maybe they are using all their resources now to shorten up those absurd rendertimes and haven't had a chance to actually look at the business side of things yet.

 

I just don't see a company like that living in that much of a vaccuum that they won't realize eventually that they are way overpriced when it comes to renderfarms licenses.

[abicalho]

One thing to remember is that if they have a different pricing, they have to have a different product and a different license. From a development point of view, this means more QA, more time, more chance for problems.

 

Features are nice and we all want them. Look around at the renderers out there and there always something missing, it always needs a new release or more time to mature. Why is everyone expecting a new renderer to be ready and spectacular out of the box on R1 and "for free" or "for peanuts"?

 

As Fran said, they're a company, so think about it from their side too. If you can't afford it, just don't buy it. I love the Toyota Prius, but I have a 3.5 year old Civic. The Prius runs better than the civic in MPG, has more this and that; is less potent than the Civic, and costs almost twice the price. But I want the Prius. Can I have it? Maybe, but it will hurt my pocket. Would it be wise to buy it? To be honest, in my case no. Well, ask yourself the same question when talking about Maxwell.

[Devin Johnston]

Fran, I agree with you about 10 nodes being enough, and that's basically what you get with other render engines. I have asked Next Limit about what their future plans are in terms of their pricing structure but they have no answer other than 4 CPU's per license. I think abicalho has a good point about maybe being to busy to have developed other license options other than the primary one. I hope this is the case, only time will tell.

[daros]

I'm to working on Architectural visualization. i'm using Lightwave.

If i want a Maxwell-like image in Lightwave i must spend about 5 hours for the setup and make about 20-30 rendering tests. Then, if i want a final rendering with two area lights, diffuse reflections, caustics, motion blur, and DOF i must wait from 5 to 50 times more as with Maxwell. In architectural animations with Lightwave i have usually frames between 6 and 17 hours each on dual 3 Ghz Xeon's.

I will change my 150 CPU rendering farm a soon as possible to Maxwell.

In Vray i can spen to about 100 times as on Maxwell to set-up a scene.

This is to a money question.

 

David Rossmann

 

http://www.arkadin.biz

http://www.stack-studios.com

http://www.animax.it/works/

[Devin Johnston]

So your saying you are going to change everything over to Maxwell?

[Ernest Burden III]

So your saying you are going to change everything over to Maxwell?

 

He must be doing a different sort of work to need 4 - 7 hour frames an a dual CPU. I have never been able to tollerate more than 4 - 7 minutes per frame.

 

I bought the alpha licence over the weekend (for Cinema4D) but I haven't got a second to even DL and install the beast.

[DelfoZ]

I bought the alpha licence over the weekend (for Cinema4D) but I haven't got a second to even DL and install the beast.

 

just "funny" how u get the "most" Photorealisitc engine to make a NPR images.

D/L and make some test i wanna see that.

 

Saludos

[Ernest Burden III]

just "funny" how u get the "most" Photorealisitc engine to make a NPR images.

 

The best ingredients make for the best results.

 

Before this I've used one of the best 'photoreal' renderers--Lightscape.

[DelfoZ]

right, i forget that point . :

[Christopher Nichols]

hahahahaha.... I found that so funny.

 

You guys are complaining about this... Renderman is $3500 PER CPU!!! Want to you 50 dual proc computers? That will cost you $350,000!!!

 

But seriously, I tend to agree. They may sell more copies to architects (their current market) if they price themselves with free network nodes. That may be a reason that Vray and finalRender have more architects than Brazil. And there are many more architects buying rendering engines than people in entertainment. Discreet knows that... right Alex?

[Devin Johnston]

Isn't renderman almost exclusively used by special effects companies? You've got to believe that if there paying that price for software there making a gob of money on what ever movie they happen to be working on at the time.

[Christopher Nichols]

You've got to believe that if there paying that price for software there making a gob of money on what ever movie they happen to be working on at the time.

 

Aaaaah.... yeah... if you think that FX houses actually make gobs of money think again. They usually barely make a profit. IF you don't believe me as yourself why big FX houses like Escape, Cinesite LA, Centropolis, etc... all had to close their doors.

 

But yes, Renderman is generally used for VFX. Which is sorta my point. Maxwell, and Brazil, and MentalRay all have based their price structure on the Renderman structure with a per CPU or per network node. Max has been used by architects for a long time, and Max users have long enjoyed the freedom of free network nodes. So Vray and finalRender have based their price structure on that model, and have gained the extra support of architects.

[Devin Johnston]

Yea, I think Maxwell seems to be setting them selves up to be in direct competition with Mental Ray. According to the Mental Ray people if you buy 10 licenses from them it's going to cost you about $1500 a piece, each license will run on two CPU's. Maxwell is $1000 for 4 CPU's so there more than half the price. One thing that bothers me is that Mental Ray isn't used much by the architecture community just because it's too expensive. Maxwell although it's not as expensive may be in for the same fate.