AJLynn Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I got some email from NL today. The gist: Release date for Maxwell 1.0 is April 26. Compensation for the wait is: "offering everyone who bought a license during the Alpha, Beta and RC stage of development, an additional license of Maxwell Render v1.0 free of charge" - which is claimed by emailing your info to an address provided. To preempt the obvious question, I don't know whether people who bought more than one license will receive more than one extra copy, though the wording of the email seems to imply that they will not. I'm just informing, not commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jeff Mottle Posted April 7, 2006 Administrators Share Posted April 7, 2006 Out of curiosity what are your thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave davidson Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 well my thoughts on this ( if any one cares ) i dont want a free license for a version that they have already said will be limited etc, they have stated that v2 will be the all singing version of maxwell to have. which means everyone will have to upgrade to it and it would cost ££. there are some that keep saying we will get 1.xx free ( we would also get current updates too from when i first bought maxwell ), but these 1.xx will not contain the all singing v2 features/ etc. i fear i will have to shell out more ££ thus making the saving from the early bird sale nil and void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlivierC Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 i think nobody knows when RS2 engine will be implemented. It could be in a 1.5 upgrade... just a thought.... personnally i'm happy to have a second license, and i will also be happy to have working features, and i hope we will have a maximum working features in 1.0. The sunlight problem will certainly be resolved, and i hope it will be before v2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunDon Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I've only been sitting on the sidelines watching this battle, and while it's nice to see NextLimit finally addressing everyone grievances in some fashion, to me this doesn't wash. The final release version is going to be far from the full-featured renderer everyone bought into Maxwell for -- so they're going to console everyone by giving them twice as many copies of it? If I eat an undercooked steak at a restaurant, the waiter isn't going to satisfy me with another identically raw slab of meat, and I think the same applies here. What's sad is that NL knows it isn't fair. They just can't afford to have all their remaining capital sucked into paying off all their disappointed customers. Rock and a hard place. Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Reminds me of a joke... - Boy do I have a deal for you... I can get you an elephant for $200 - Why do I need an elephant? Those things are huge! - Ok... two elephants for $300 - But I live in a small apartment in the city! I have no place for one elephant, yet alone two of them. - Ok... three elephants for $400 - You got a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlivierC Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 The final release version is going to be far from the full-featured renderer everyone bought into Maxwell for -- how do you know that ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Agreed with all of the above- the rs2 render engine is what they need to be held to delivering at no additional cost. Everything else is fluff. Beyond that, though, how does the free license deal work with multiple license holders? If you've got 100 licenses (and thank god I don't), do you get 100 more? EDIT: Apparently someone on the NL forums got comfirmation that they'll receive 2 free licenses on top of their two purchased licenses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunDon Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 how do you know that ???? I don't, I'm merely speculating based on the latest renders that have been released and the feature list that Maxer put together. For whatever reasons, it seems obvious that NL isn't able to make their engine work fully-featured, unless they're holding back something big. Which would be infinitely stupid to do given that it allows for wild speculation of the kind that I'm making now. I'll go back to sitting this one out. It's just too bad that NL brought all this on themselves by selling a product that hadn't been created yet, thus nailing themselves to the cross. Why they thought that writing a truly innovative rendering engine could be done in a timetable of their choosing we'll never know. Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 Hey Jeff, can I interest you in this here can of worms? Anyway, I've been disappointed in the development of Maxwell and their customer relations for some time, but I've already said as much on that as I think is necessary and probably more. As far as the technology, for me the biggest drawback is the caustics problem - all light through glass is caustics (there is no other transparent shadows implementation) and caustics hitting a surface is not seen in reflection or refraction, which is a real drawback in arch vis. There's the sunlight+glass issue, but, for example, the same things happens when you use a modelled can light (IES is not supported so you need to use modelled reflectors and glass for light fixtures). Light a room with cans or globes and put in a mirror, and what's in the mirror is dark. Also, all interior rendering is slow - it's doing a heck of a lot of light bounce calculation. The caustics problem and maybe the speed issues are to be addressed in a new version of the engine they're calling RS2, but as far as anybody has said this will not be in v1.0, which will be based on "RS1+" - an improved version of the beta engine. There is no official word on when RS2 should be available. As far as the release date, well, we've seen this all before, several times. Beyond that, I'll withhold judgement. As for the bonus Maxwell license, it's been expected, I think it will make some people happy and not others. For those who think Maxwell is golden, more gold is always a good thing. For those who are completely sick of it, it's another copy of something they don't want anymore. Personally, I'm weary of trying to deal with NL, and I think I'm alone here in that I still have a choice of how to address the situation and until July to decide - bottom line is I don't have nealy as much money in this as a lot of people do, $190 will buy me 2 full Maxwell licenses if I want them, or I can cut my ties with NL and write it off as a loss. One of the nice things about being able to buy student versions. I'll wait and see how this 1.0 situation pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb602 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I have a couple of reactions to this announcement. First, I am taking it with a big grain of salt until a functional copy of Maxwell 1.0 is installed on my hard drive. And I do appreciate the additional license; I feel it's the least they could do given the circumstances and Maxwell's speed problems. However, I bought in to the whole Maxwell soap opera on the (apparently radical) assumption that I would be able to render sunlight passing through glass. If that is not solved in Maxwell 1.x, then I will have two copies of a perfectly useless piece of software. I think the ethical/decent/legal thing for Next Limit to do is to give us whatever version of Maxwell is finally able to meet the basic requirements for architectural rendering, whether it's 1.5 or 432.3. And if I want to be really cynical I could see the free license as another fundraising scheme. If we need to pay for a 2.0 upgrade to solve the sun & glass problem, are we now expected to buy two upgrades for every license we originally bought? Just a thought. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Well, I hope this extra license means it is not more then twice as slow as they expected... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 Well, I hope this extra license means it is not more then twice as slow as they expected... Yeah, the email I got a while back saying that there was no longer a speed barrier because cooperative rendering was working was a really bad omen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I really hope that they do the respectable thing and at least give us the same number of free licenses as number of licenses you currently own. I don't think this in any way makes up for the RC debacle but it's a nice gesture in acknowledging how long we have had to wait. IMO we should be getting free upgrades to V2.0 or what ever version actually has all the features that we were originally promised and under which we purchased our licenses. As for the release date I think they've probably learned that they can't miss any more dates without severe repercussions. They’ll probably release something there calling V1.0 on that date but it will be missing some critical features and will probably have some bugs that will hopefully be addressed by updates a few weeks later. All in all it's a positive sign but none of this should have ever happened and I fear it will be a long time before we see V2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus3D Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 If the goal some of you have is to shoot NL down no matter what they deliver then you should atleast first of all know everything which is included in 1.0 and not speculate about things you have no idea about. That's pointless and leads only to even more speculations and wild rumors based on nothing. So far all the features and functions 1.0 will have aren't revealed, it'll come out in tiny bits until the day they release it to us. When you know all that then you have enough meat on your bones to comment about this and that missng and non-functioning thing, now it's just rambling and pointless babbling. Sorry for the tone in my post but this was the only way to put it nicely as i'm so tired of all the damn constant complaining and nagging. / Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Sorry for the tone in my post but this was the only way to put it nicely as i'm so tired of all the damn constant complaining and nagging. / Max If you don't like the complaints, don't go looking for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I would not count myself to the ramblers and pointless babblers, but I DO think that this situation has showed that companies can do with (potential) customers whatever they want and certainly not in the last place because customers let them. Since my first - very expensive - Lightscape v2 purchase, I have learned not to have too high expectations for new products in this area. As for Maxwell: it's a lottery...or in other words: my business just can not depend on it. And this is mainly because of the bad support and communication, since I never intended to use the product commercially in its current (and past) state...One thing I really like is the new naming: "The Light Simulator", because that was why I bought it in the first place...Maxwell shows me how I should light my models with faster alternative renderers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 Max: The lack of concrete info is what makes us speculate, but I've been trying to stick with things we know with a fair degree of certainty, which I think is what Devin's been doing with the feature list. What I said about RS1+ and RS2 is stuff we've been told by A-Team people, it's the best info we have, the caustics problem and interior slowness (which are the biggest drawbacks for architecture CG people) won't be fixed, though we might get some speed improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus3D Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Yes, i'm gonna start by apologizing for my rough post yesterday. Got a bad tooth ache so it drives me crazy here anyways i know there are still good things to come in the future announcements up until the day we will have our 1.0 and well wild speculations and guesses should be predicted to happen. Take it easy people, good things come to the patient one's trust me on that. / Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricklyne Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 If the goal some of you have is to shoot NL down no matter what they deliver then you should atleast first of all know everything which is included in 1.0 and not speculate about things you have no idea about. That's pointless and leads only to even more speculations and wild rumors based on nothing. The least you can do, even with rosy-coloured glasses would be to acknowledge the fact that, if there's any blame to be cast for this, then NL itself has a large claim to that blame. Firstly as a result of their refusal for months on end to communicate with customers who were originally promised they would be part of the development process; and secondly, as a result of the now infamous and lengthy catalogue of dishonesty and outright lies regarding the promised features and expectations of the product and their general business practices and customer relations. The negative reactions you see from people are merely the residue of all the battle-fatigue of having to deal with the above. So far all the features and functions 1.0 will have aren't revealed, ........ Well actually they have. At various points in time, starting from their original feature list that convinced most of us to buy the product in the first place. Obviously that list was considerably pared down once they realized that they were in way over their heads, but Maxer was able to reconstruct a reasonable list of features that have since been either confirmed or mentioned by A-teamers and developers as of the RC fiasco. We have that to go by as well as the white paper they released. these are what most clients will be judging whatever they release on the 26th, against as well as any future updates and patches (pre-version 2.0, that is) Sorry for the tone in my post but this was the only way to put it nicely as i'm so tired of all the damn constant complaining and nagging. / Max Again, I wonder who's primarily to blame for that....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Clarence, I understand your point, but none of this is Magnus' fault or anything that he is under any obligation or inclination to explain. How about accepting his apology and leaving it at that? Nothing we can say here about NL's poor policies will do anything to change NL. It only creates strife between users of differing viewpoints. Both sides have valid arguments. Sometimes you just feel like you feel. [ETA] There is a service to the public interest in disclosing bad experiences with companies like Next Limit. I won't argue that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricklyne Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Clarence, I understand your point, but none of this is Magnus' fault or anything that he is under any obligation or inclination to explain. How about accepting his apology and leaving it at that? Nothing we can say here about NL's poor policies will do anything to change NL. It only creates strife between users of differing viewpoints. Both sides have valid arguments. Sometimes you just feel like you feel. [ETA] There is a service to the public interest in disclosing bad experiences with companies like Next Limit. I won't argue that point. Sorry Fran, I posted that reply before I read all through the thread and saw his second post. Regardless and in any event, I wasn't blaming him in particular, but merely asking for an acknowledgement of the fact that NextLimit themselves are largely responsible for the high degree of cynicism and resentment among their client base, thanks, as we all know, to their past actions. That's all. In any case, like him, I'm looking forward to April the 26th, if just to put some sense of closure to this whole sorry episode. Who knows, they just might surprise us all......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Has everyone received the email by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Hmmmm... maybe I've been blacklisted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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