RE: best software for modeling architecture

[phix95]

Hi.

I use 3ds max b/c it's what I learned in school. I'm interested in modeling people and architecture. What is the best (or most proficient) program for doing architecture? 3ds max isnt built really for that and it's a pain (for me). Should I try something like Arch. Desktop? Would that be more precise and fast?

Thanks

[IC]

Yes for architecture, ADT is precise and fast as are all CAD programs with 3d functions.

Saying that though, Max is more than capable of doing precision modelling and if you want to do people etc, Max, Softimage, Maya, LightWave and Cinema 4D are the top dogs so you can't really go wrong with Max as an all rounder.

[Tim Woods]

max and autocad are the way forward, as max offers accurate drawing tools. Being a user of Maya aswell, I would stick clear of it for pure accurate ARCH modelling, it doesnt have the correct tools, measuring etc is a pain.

[tecton3d]

for arch modeling, I love Form-Z - although it's rendering options are limited and true "organic/people" modeling may prove to be a challenge.

[Frosty]

There is no "Best". There is only the "Best For You". Everybody thinks differently and will approach 3D modelling differently. If you listened to my opinion of which software was the best for me, you may be sorely disappointed after dropping $4500 on software.

 

As I say every time this topic comes up - download the demos of all the big players mentioned so far. Try these demos to see which ones work the way you want to work and then make your purchase.

[aaron-cds]

Sketchup is a very fast accurate architectural modeler if you're not trying to model something with organic forms. The main thing that makes sketchup so fast is how easy it is to make changes. At $495, it's a very inexpensive tool that is worth more than the cost.

[FlytE]

LOL, notice how almost everyone says something different?

 

3DS Max is probably the most widely used 'all-rounder' but 3DS Viz is a better option for architectural visualisation. It strips away all the stuff out of max that you will probably never need and focuses on the relevant stuff. Viz is my recommendation.

[STRAT]

exactly what Frosty says.

[Matt Clementson]

LOL, notice how almost everyone says something different?

 

3DS Max is probably the most widely used 'all-rounder' but 3DS Viz is a better option for architectural visualisation. It strips away all the stuff out of max that you will probably never need and focuses on the relevant stuff. Viz is my recommendation.

If money is not a barrier and you're deciding between MAX and VIZ then I'd suggest that you get MAX for archi-viz work. Granted you'll probably not use some of the features but I've found that VIZ is a little too cut down for my tastes and there are a couple of features I use in MAX that aren't in VIZ.

[phix95]

Thanks for the replies. Well, precise non-organic modeling in 3ds is a pain (such as measuring like Tim Woods said). I've never even seen the autocad interface and I think it is much different...so I assume hard to learn if you're used to 3ds. I do own Sketchup but havent gotten around to trying it. I assume rendering in autocad is worthless? What about materials? I've heard of people modeling in autocad and bringing it into something else to render. What do you think?

[Brian Cassil]

Thanks for the replies. Well, precise non-organic modeling in 3ds is a pain (such as measuring like Tim Woods said). I've never even seen the autocad interface and I think it is much different...so I assume hard to learn if you're used to 3ds. I do own Sketchup but havent gotten around to trying it. I assume rendering in autocad is worthless? What about materials? I've heard of people modeling in autocad and bringing it into something else to render. What do you think?

 

Yep, lot of people work like that, although I don't personally. Max and viz both integrate really tightly with autocadd.

[josephus]

I've been asking that question for 20 years!!! I'm an architect and we do in-house modeling/renderings for all our projects. I've used Autocad/ADT for years, but could never get used to the the 3D side of the program....actually hated it rather intensely using it for 3D, even after taking some one-on-one training. Used ADT for 2D drawings only and would say I'm an "expert" in the 2D. Have been using FormZ for 3D modeling/rendering for years, I really like the way it works and the company is the best, however, there are some serious problems, we experience lots of crashing (more than all our other programs combined), and currently lacks a top notch render engine, although there's talk coming down the grapevine that a better third party render plug-in (not Maxwell) is in the pipeline, so that is very good news. The other serious negative is that there are no parametric tools for such things as roofs, windows, doors, etc, etc. Everything has to be built from scratch, and if you have a complicated roof, that becomes very time consuming. Since we need to produce also 2D construction docs, we have recently switched to Archicad which works in a 3D environment and then you pull off the 2D drawings after completing the 3D model. After a nightmarish learning curve (even after having used CAD and FormZ for years), we're becoming more and more pleased with its 3D modeling capabilities. All that said, if I were you and had a copy of Sketchup, I would really check out its capabilities and see if either 3DS or Viz could fill in the gaps. You might want to check out Revit, since it's an Autodesk product and seems to work much like Sketchup....not that I'm an Autodesk fan by any means, but the point is that Revit is in the 3DS/Viz family.

[phix95]

Hmmm. Well I will look at sketchup when I have some time. Does that have accurate measuring tools and built in stairs, windows, etc.? I'm basically looking for something that can create the tedious stuff like that easily so I don't do everything from scratch all the time. Is there a good systematic way to start a building and such? Do you use Splines for the floor/walls and extrude up? Would a good procedure be to build in sketch up, export to Max, add materials and lights, and render? I'm looking for a good pipeline too. I've heard importing like that to Max gives you a mess of a mesh.

 

Thanks again

 

Oh and I ordered a trial of autocad. Not that Ill know what the hell im doing...

[Nic H]

It seems that ArchiCAD has been overlooked by the majority of posters, yes its pretty expensive, but does offer a full 3d set of tools especially designed for modelling architecture. With a few add-ons (Windowbuilder 3.5) it can be a very quick modelling (and documentation) tool.

 

We use it at work in conjunction with 3DMax and Vray for our planning, marketing and visualization images. It integrates fairly well with 3Dmax via .3ds export. There is also a free ArchiCAD importer that basically welds vertex's and replaces materials that is quiet handy.

 

The way we use it for visualization is to model the architectural shells (walls, slabs, windows, roof, etc) and then populate and refine that model in 3DMax (furniture, plants, chamfering, and curved or complex geometry) This provides a quick and easy workflow for us, about as quick as modelling from DWG's inside max. As most of our external viz work is supplied via DWG we pretty much 'trace' quickly in Archicad applyign different materials to different elements as we go then into max.

[josephus]

The importance of the pipeline/workflow is huge, hence my suggestion to explore Sketchup since you have a copy (I've not tried it myself, just looked at the demo...seems to be REALLY easy to use, and its users seem quite enthusiastic). 3DS appears to be "the" program of choice in the industry for final model tweaks and render output. Probably most if not all the architectural animations/videos you can see on the web are done in MAX. The third party plug-ins for MAX are unparallelled....same for 3D objects (for purchase)...they're almost always put out in MAX file format. I frankly wish that I had started with MAX (instead of FormZ) as it seems to not have the limits that I keep running into in FormZ. Since we also have to produce 2D construction docs, which has traditionally been the bulk of the work in an architectural office, Archicad meets our needs perfectly....fast and accurate 3D modeling and same for 2D docs. It took some trial and error but we finally found an export format (EIS) that elimates most of the nasty triangulation. So our workflow/pipeline now is Archicad to FormZ for 3D refinements and render output (there are some who use MAX for a glorified and expense render engine), as well as Archicad to Plotmaker for 2D documentation (Archicad's ability to do both very well makes it our program of choice). We're pushing the limits of the FormZ render engine, but are hopeful that soon a more sophisticated render engine using GI becomes available...then we'll be all set.

[3dworks]

i'm very happy with formz as my main modeling tool. definitely a great 'fusion' between true 3d solid modelling and CAD features! also, i especially like the precision of this tool and the great output translators for all the render engines i'm using in our studio (EIAS, LW and maxwell). i cannot imagine to miss the flexible symbols management or the layer/ objects structures for doing complex projects with sometimes last minute changes. on the other side, for all tasks where subdivision surfaces are important, i prefer LW modeler or, more recently, modo.

[Geoffc]

Being an architect first, I have years of experience with Autocad and thus choose to start all my modeling there. And then move it into Viz for lights/rendering/advanced modeling.

 

Once you get used to Autocad's object snaps, measurement, and general precision (basepoint method of working), I've found it very very difficult to model in non-exact programs such as max or viz or formz. But keep in mind that when I do all my every-day 2d construction drawings, lack-of-precision is not an option. I've often thought that many 3d guys that can whip out "close enough" stuff in max modeling have a distinct advantage over my need to make everything line up and measure out.

 

sketchup has it's abilities for quick stuff, and is quite fun to use, but may lack for advanced modeling if you need that.

 

btw, FWIW, autocad 2007 has added much more in the way of modeling, including the same push/pull features as sketchup, which has really made my life easier. problem is, it's $3500.

[Arquitrad]

Revit!!!

 

Damn fast for architectural modelling.

I just finished a block of flats in 7 hours... Greatest advantage of all is that you can keep changing things. The components are intelligent and adapt themselves.

 

For decent renderings link to MAX/VIZ.

[kuneho]

Autocad's 2D precise. Very snappy, accurate, and compatible with most architect's cad files.

 

Reference or Import the 2D drawings into Max, that's the best combination.

 

If you'll be in an archi office, about 20-30 employees using autocad, best software to get is autocad full version. 2007 sounds promising since models are rumored (ex-coworker came today praising it's parametric capabilities like in max). I got 2006 right now running Accurender 4.

 

Accurender 4, hmm the best in making custom concrete blocks, bricks, tile patterns without having to make a bitmap of it.

 

Modelling people, yes Max would be good for organic models. Autocad will work fine for stiff looking models like box type bldgs with conc. blocks or bricks, etc. You can of course use bitmaps for textures and bump maps. Its 3d is limited so you'll have to be very creative. I'm an artist at heart, but I am really technically minded. I want accuracy more than just "looking right." This isn't hollywood. My 3d files get used as reference for 2D construction drawings months later after design development. Architects will need to know where things are and what 's their distances and thicknesses are.

 

Hi.

I use 3ds max b/c it's what I learned in school. I'm interested in modeling people and architecture. What is the best (or most proficient) program for doing architecture? 3ds max isnt built really for that and it's a pain (for me). Should I try something like Arch. Desktop? Would that be more precise and fast?

Thanks

[IC]

Reference or Import the 2D drawings into Max, that's the best combination.

 

 

I don't think everyone would agree with that, actually.

 

We just got ADT 2007 and it is quite an improvement for 2D/3D users.

I'm now doing all modelling there and exporting in 3D for rendering.

[kuneho]

That's true.

[jtiscareno]

WOW waht a good topic, specially for us architects, I have been asking the same question myself since coming to a big design firm. I too have been doing all my 2d and 3d stuff in cad, no adt, just straight foward solids and am too a stickler for precise drawings be it 2d or 3d, I know that it maybe better as one poster said of the 3d guys "almost close enough" but to each its own and what works best.

 

I too tride sketchup and gave up after several tries, it is sort of not precise, but on the other hand have seen some other architects that did not have any experience in 3d modeling do some great stuff.

 

I have been doing more and more in max, it is not precise or not precise in the autocad way but it can do some stuff faster. It is just a diffrent way of thinking, be it in max or SU.

 

I went to a revit seminar and it looks very promising and it seems (but who knows) that it will be slowly but maybe surely the standard for construction documents, it is being used more and more at the conceptual and schematic level and jumping into cd phase. I would say not to jump to this one just yet, it is good and impresive but it wil take you a will to learn and master. Fastest would defenetly be SU beacuse cad will also take some time to learn.

 

And I am very please to hear that acad 2007 has been updated to be better for 3d modeling with features like the push-pull of SU, it would be nice to have sort of the "history" of an object or family that one could come in and make fast changes (and you guys know how many changes it will have in the end). I will look foward to version 2007!

 

One cool thing about SU is that if you applie materials to the model once you export it as 3ds and then import into max it will have one multi-subobject materail with all the materials on it for easy and quick change but there is not linking from SU to max. I may be wrong but there is not true linking from revit to max just yet and have heard that is not in the owrks either. Only true linking is from autocad to max/viz and that is great specially if one works for a arch firm that the model is not only used for viz but for design, models, etc.

 

Good luck and I hope to hear more good news from Acad 2007! This old dog might just stick it thru with cad all the way...

[runrun]

I vote for Sketchup for Arch modeling by far my favorite. I've used Lightwave 3D, FormZ, Cinema 4D, Maya, 3DS max, & EIAS.

[runrun]

Hmmm. Well I will look at sketchup when I have some time. Does that have accurate measuring tools and built in stairs, windows, etc.?

You can make stairs very easily in sketcup. Also add trim and moldings easily with the follow me tool. You just need to look at the tutorial videos to figure it out.

Take a look at their tutorial videos.

[RobMc]

My preferences are :-

 

1) accurate modelling in Rhino3D

 

2) organic stuff in Modo

 

Both programs are excellent for pure 3d.