Any Streaming Video Experts out there?

[Jeff Mottle]

Hi all,

 

I'm working on an initiative rigth now using Windows Media Video/Audio and streaming. The footage I have is captured using a proprietary codec that does not want to play nice with any of the commercial video editors out there.

 

To get it to work, I need to use Microsoft Media Encoder to re-encode it to WMV file using anotehr codec that can be both edited and eventually streamed online. The problem I am having is artifacting due to the nature of the original recording which is all software screen capture.

 

The process therefore is ORIGINAL WMV File (Proprietary CODEC) -> Re-encoded to some other format/codec -> Re-encoded back to streaming WMV format.

 

 

So here are the questions:

 

1. For the second encoding which I will use for editing, what format and/or codec would be best? Ideally I should be re-encoding the original file to something that is lossless as possible.

 

2. What resources or info can anyone provide for creating the best possible quality streaming WMV file, taking into consideration it's 99% screen capture recordings of 3D software?

 

NOTE: The final format must be WMV in order to work on the Video content distribution Network I am using.

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[F J]

hi,

im personaly not an expert, but i've done some video editing/converting..

 

not sure what u mean by "proprietary codec that does not want to play nice"..

r u just trying to convert it?

what about this "artifacting"? is it actual image/color distortions or just bad framing rate?

 

nothing like an actual "hands-on" to see whats goin' on..

one would think after u strip the film on ur standard video editor u could just import/export the "image sequence" into a new environment so it would just be a series of images that u could then "compile" to a desirable format..

 

im a lil rusty but im thinkin' like: Adobe Premiere v2.0? Avid Xpress Pro v5.6? Ultra Video Converter v2.0? (might be handy this one)

 

has to be .wmv huh? :\

i really like the .flv (flash) format..

n there is like Ultra Video-to-Flash Converter just so u can output ur just-about-any-format to flash for playing it streamed..

 

anyways, good luck

[Jeff Mottle]

The application I'm using to do the first encoding is called GoToMeeting. It's like Camtasia. They have a fantastic Codec for screen capture work, unfourtunately it does not play nice with Premiere or Vegas.

 

I am able to re-encode it using Windows Media Encoder using the Windows Media 9 Video Screen Codec, but it does a really bad job of continuous tone. I've tried both version 8 and 7 (which do not do that, but overall it looks worse and like it was encoded with really bad VBR compression)

 

I need GoToMeeting for one of the aspects of this project, but I could use Camtasia for others. Their Codec is lossless, and I can edit it this way using their editor and then encode to WMV, but from my testing thus far WM 9 Video Screen Codec is the only ones that comes close to acceptable. But it's FAR from the quality that GoToMeeting's Proprietary Codec, which is a decoder only (at least for public use).

 

When it comes to streaming, the streaming network is only WMV, so it has to end there somehow.

 

I spent about 5 hours today playing with frame rates, buffer sizes, key frame intervals etc and there is just no way to get really clean video.

 

I guess there is a reason companies like TechSmith and Citrix, keep their codecs proprietary.

[rb50]

Hi Jeff,

 

 

I would dump it to raw video and edit from there - Your file will be very large.

 

I'm sure you know that each time you re-encode you lose quality.

 

I use a program called TMPGenc - it works with almost every codec I've tried.

You can edit WMV directly with it, although you mentioned proprietary so who knows.

 

http://www.tmpgenc.net/en/e_main.html

 

The program is free opensource and very easy to use if you know alittle about video editing. It a down and dirty little program but works great and has many many features.

 

1) Open and edit using TMPGenc

 

2) Re-encode to raw video

 

3) Re-encode to WMV using ??? what ever.

 

 

 

Kevin

[Jeff Mottle]

Hi Jeff,

 

 

I would dump it to raw video and edit from there - Your file will be very large.

 

I'm sure you know that each time you re-encode you lose quality.

 

I use a program called TMPGenc - it works with almost every codec I've tried.

You can edit WMV directly with it, although you mentioned proprietary so who knows.

 

http://www.tmpgenc.net/en/e_main.html

 

The program is free opensource and very easy to use if you know alittle about video editing. It a down and dirty little program but works great and has many many features.

 

1) Open and edit using TMPGenc

 

2) Re-encode to raw video

 

3) Re-encode to WMV using ??? what ever.

 

 

 

Kevin

 

Thanks Kevin,

 

I just downloaded the app and have loaded a clip, but the only option it seems it to encode to MPEG, which does not see like a RAW format. Am I missing something?

[Jeff Mottle]

Hey Jeff,

 

By RAW video I am assuming Kevin means

Uncompressed, (usually a 'none' option in

many apps). This way you bypass your encoding

app not working with a proprierty codec.

 

Regards

Bri

 

Yeah I assumed the same. The only option that seems like that is the option called Constant Quality as part of the bit rate control. It seems more like other apps CBR Quality encoding though.

[rb50]

Jeff

 

I'll see if I can post the procedure for it. ( TMPGenc) that is

 

 

 

kevin

[Jeff Mottle]

Ahhh,

 

Have you tried Virtual Dub? Fantastic little program

that has done things for us that Premiere wouldn't.

A quick search should track it down for you.

 

Bri

 

Handy tool to know about. Thanks. Unfourtunately it will not read WMV files.

[Jeff Mottle]

Jeff

 

I'll see if I can post the procedure for it. ( TMPGenc) that is

 

 

 

kevin

 

 

I should probably also mention that we are talking abut 30-90 min of Video, so I'm not sure what that would equate to in a RAW format. Encoded with the proprietary codecs they are about 2.7 MB/min with Audio.

[rb50]

Jeff

 

That was going to be my question - How long is the clip.

 

 

Being that long you will probably have to use mpeg codec (mpeg-1) and convert it from there.

 

I just did a test on a 2 min clip using (Raw AVI Uncompressed) and it was 2.7 gigs in size - so with 90 mins of video you can see the sizes we're talking about.

 

 

Might just try editing -> MPEG1->Convert to WMV

 

 

 

Kevin

[rb50]

Jeff

 

If you still want to do Raw - tghis is the procedure:

 

1) OPen TMPGenc

2) Cancel out of Wizard ( If it pops up )

3) Drag and drop your video into the main screen

5) Click on the [setting] Button at the bottm right next to [Load][save]

6) U should see MPEG Setting panel popup, Click on the Advanced Tab

7) Click in the large selection window at the bottom in the little squar box next to( []Source Range ), You should see a check mark now

8) Double click on Source range (the text itself) to open up the editing window

9) The Source Range edit window should popup, You should see a little slider bar

10) Use the arrow of the slider bar to set your in & out frames ( Set start frame / Set end frame )

11) Click OK when done, And then click OK on MPEG setting panel to close that also

12) Now encode it, Go up to ( FILE->Output to file->AVI file ) Click and a save as window should popup

13) You should see some options at the bottom of the window, the Video should default to No compression, 640x480 24 bit

If that is what it says go ahead and hit save, else click the [setting] button on the video line and select

No comression

14) Save it - It will probably take a long time

 

 

Kevin