living Room

[Danil Gorskikh]

how to save image in LWF (gamma 2.2)
your gamma settings is correct.
you don`t need press sRGB button with this settings. only bad thing is your framebufer copy will be bright and incorrect so you cant compare actual framebufer and copy of framebufer.
if you save image in 8bit format - you have correct result.
i usualy save image in tiff 8bit. image is ok.
if you save image in 32bit like tiff32 or exr - you need correct gamma in ps because this format override gamma again )) and you have gamma 2.2 from max + gamma 2.2 from saving. correct your gamma in photoshop cs2 or cs3.

i don`t know wich of pictures is correct because i don`t know did you press sRGB for saving or what is your material. the correct render you can see with all gamma settings you did and dont push sRGB button in VFB.

for work with gamma your need fix your material!!!
you can`t use material from gamma 1 in gamma 2.2
it seams you don`t understand what gamma do with your scene.
gamma remove some of black color. check attachment.
for example you set 128 in your color for reflection in gamma 1. it`s ok
but when you swich to gamma 2.2 you gradient changes!!! and your 128 becom bright!!! this happens with all color in material!! you need to correct all colors. but your bitmap textures is ok because of your gamma settings in max!!

so i don`t know what to say about your color render. its wrong until you fix your material. how can you select colors for g2.2?? just select it in your taste by your sight. i mean there is no formula to convert old color to new but for example you want to make your wall green. just set you diffuse color to green )))) if you like your green color in material editor - you will like it on render!!! if you feel your green wall is bright or washed out - just correct your green color. make it dark and more saturated ))) you need only practice in it ) it`s realy easy.

i realy hate any discussion about gamma )))) i read alot of it in russain forum there is some thread in 100 pages and more )))) there is all shared setting people need but anyway some on newbie ask again "what is gamma" or "how it works" and all starts again )))))). i know it`s my own problem ))) just never minde it ))) your are the last man with whom i discuss gamma and LWF ))))

i think you need go step by step. it looks you don`t know exactly how to make render better and try change everything without any system and understanding what you doing. so the best way IMHO is chang something a little.
your set up day render in gray material - it looks ok. then you can add color on your scene. you can assign material only for room and tweak it until you like it. then you can add color material on other model. in final you can ajust light setting. i never change intensity on sun and sky but it`s not a rule. you can do what you want. for example if your sun light too bright and you have overbright of it you can
1 change color mapping type
2 decrease sun intensity
it`s all ok if your image become better.

your light set up looks strange. i understand what you did with portal. but there is some aditional light. i don`t know if they affect your scene. can your send me your scene? i`ll set up light and share it with you. i use max9 and your cant open my scene, but i share image and advice of it.

[Mimi mohd]

This is the picture, after i add texture to the walls and causions, and play with phusical camera settings, and the reflection of the floor.
the first pic, i kept gamma settings as default
the second pic. i changed gamma settings to 1.4, but without change it in color mapping.
actually i like the both result
which one of the two view , close to reality????

Ps. i used the vray sun, but the sun rays didn't appear the same way when i render the same view with override material(gray).... i attached it before...., even i use portals for both, the only different that in gary scene i hide the window glass so the sun rays can come in, what is the reason?

[Danil Gorskikh]

i think you have trouble in window with sun. may be glass material? did you set on affect shadow switche?
both image is not good for me. sorry.
i can`t feel light there is no shadow. it`s lok flat.
i`ll check your scene and try to finde what`s wrong.

ps. i think you on the right way with gamma.
it`s realy only tool and nothing more. you can use any gama settings you want!!

[Danil Gorskikh]

hey, you crush my minde with your scene )))
there are a lot of mistakes. fundamental mistakes!
your room model.
you use flat ceiling it`s wrong. just add thickness and make render.
your walls, ceiling, floor must have thickness.
i make quick fixing of room. you dont need weld all vertexes and cup all holes. i show you how i make my model. my models always work good for me.
i`v merged your geometry in my new scene, i`v fixed geometry and seted up light. sky sun + 5 portals in wondow. 1 portal per window. so my quick render with LWF (gamma 2.2)

you don`t have sky map in enviroment!

Ps. quick color test...

[Mimi mohd]

I don't know what to say, Woooow, a huge different between yours results and mine , about modeling i don't use max i do modiling using Revit buildings 9.1, i only render using max, i notice aslo that the floor,ceiling,walls, are flat, maybe when i import the file to max i did something wrong, however, i will find my mistakes and fix it
thanks for your support,take care

Ps. i really feel sad that u don't like the results, but also i know they are not good enough, but comparing with the first view i sent, i think i'm getting better ofcourse thanks for you, and i will keep trying until i will sutisfy your standerds

[Danil Gorskikh]

please don`t going to my satisfaction!!! i see alot of work wich more better than my. i never satisfied with my work )) and don`t be sad about it.
you have some fundamental mistake in your scene. just fix it and you`ll see it comes more better!!!
one of the mistake is flat ceiling. sun shine inside room and lit it. if you fix room your light will be from window and not from ceiling. don`t weld vertex as i did. just intersect wall with ceiling and wall with floor. but your geometry must have thickness.
second mistake is scale of your models. it`s not big mistake but sometimes it works wrong. if you scale up or scale down your model with scale tool you must apply resetXform from utilite toolbar. scaled model is the same size as before scale. i mean system size. not visible. and render use model in system size. so if you scale up your armchair in 5 time it`s still 5 time smaller for render. sometime is cause error. i`m talking about system and culture of scene creation and setup. i realy have not mistake in my scenes. it work perfectly every time. i only ajust render settings from scene to scene. sometime GI, sometime memory usage.
third mistake that you don`t use skymap in enviroment slot. i don`t see it there in your scene. it`s a system sun+sky+phiscamera. so using it togather is good!
fourth mistake that you use addinional light in the room in the begining of setup. why it`s wrong? there is disbalance in RC2 and in your scene. we think as a rule that sky+sun+phiscamera give us phisical correct result. don`t realy phisical correct but we will think so for a star point. you don`t know about light multiplier inside room. you set it on of your mind (of your sight) but you don`t know is it correct or not. you don`t have perfect artistic eye and don`t know is it good or know. by the way i don`t have artistic eye too. it`s hard to me make realy photoreal image but i learing every time. if you make mistake at this point you going to tweak everything (your light, your sun, your gamma and so on) and you don`t know what to tweak. so for you and me there is awesom tool. if we use this tool - we can think about 90% proof that image is correct! this tool is vraylight in phisical unit!!! i use lumenous unit for vraylight. so if you have good geometry and proper sky+sun+phisical camera set up, you can set up your inside lamp with phisical correct result. not realy phisical correct but we think it. because we need a system for work. for example you have room with 5 downlight in ceiling. you need day shot and night shot. as i said you just need good geometry, sky+sun+camera for day shot.
you turn on your downlight and set their reallife lumenous power for day shot. it`s work realy good in RC5. it compensate brightnes near window and make your image balanced with light. for the night shot you need just turn off sun+sky and ajust you camera for night as you doing photo in real life!!! you don`t need tweak your downlight for night. it still works perfectly.

and the last mistake you did is your material. you material need tweaking alot. and if you set up your light correctly but still have wrong material your result will be wrong in some areas. i said you use gray override because of this. you realy can feel light, you can feel atmosphere and don`t think about material and color.
i know it`s need some experience, but you are learning now and it`s ok for you. just continue practice in your free time. after 3-5 done project you starting to understand some thing. it`s realy only time and practice you need.

about my and your image in comparison. i don`t mean i make great result. it`s only quick set up to show you fundamentel principles.

your second gray image is staring be good. but you turned on inside room light. inside room was this wrong multiplier setup and your kill your daylight.
whiout inside room light it would be good daylight shot. if you set up proper your daylight you can say yourself - my sun and sky and camera is ok. so my daylight is ok. i like it. it looks like real. what to do in next step?
you can tweak inside lamp or you can tweak material. this is a step by step technique. you have one good result. you try to fix next part of your scene. don`t jump from one to another.

uhhh. i`ve wrote a lot of words. if you don`t understand something because of my english and our language barrier - just ask me. i try to make images for you.

anyway i don`t try to teach you. i just show you way i`ve done and my workflow. just try to help.

so i say it again. don`t be said becaus of i am. just look at your pictures and ask you. is it good? how you think? yes you make it better but is it good for now? if you think it`s not good enought just keep improve it. ask yourself and other whats wrong?
i never think my work good. i neve satisfied with it. but i know about clients and deadline. i try to do everyting i can for make my work better in time. i`ll try always )))

we have all life to improve our work )))

[Mimi mohd]

Ok, I catch what u meant, I review my mistakes, first I will focus now on adjusting my day light, second, set the inside light (luminance), and I will attach the results,
About the materials, I don't get what u meant, by tweaking them, but its ok, later we discuss that. Or , you like to give me an example.
Oh, don't give matter about what I said "be sad that my results still not good enough", you know girls , always want the fast perfect results, but I'm soooooo patient and I will try until it's be good.
Take care, thanks for your directions, they helped and keep helping me.

[Apostolos Tsivolas]

i m sorry for the interruption, but i think your chat here is the best lesson for all newbies (like me).
keep talking!!

[Danil Gorskikh]

2Mimi mohd
i`m surprised that you a girl )) nice to meet you )
you right about first and second.
we can discuss you material later but for example:
floor tiles material on the your last image from #22 post. there is no bump seams between tiles! your floor looks flat.
there is no fresnel or fallof reflection! your seams must not be reflected!!
and now my floor fron #24 with bump and reflection for tiles and no reflection for seams. may be it too glossy, but i don`t know sort of your tiles ))

your mine

about indoor light for lumenous. you can find info about color and lumenous power on the manufacturer webpage like http://philips.com/. for example fluorescent tube lamp from philips.com datasheet. you need Correlated colour (k) and Lumen output (lm). don`t know what exactly type of lamp you need. but it almos like one on other. so try this or find your own lamp.

PS. i don`t use watt in lamp unit because 2 different lamp with same light power in watt give different result.
it depent on performance index (efficiency) of lamp.

2mare96
you are welcome ))
we will contunue until we get good result or Mimi mohd stop improve it ))

[Andy Pennington]

If you are using the 2.2 gamma method, your color correction should be set to linear, exponential will give you the greyed out look. You dont need sRGB in the frame buffer either, because you have already set your gamma to 2.2 in your colour correction settings.

Oh.... and if you are using this method to brighten things up, it is also recommended you balance it out by darkening your materials using the vraycolor map in the diffuse slot (or adjusting your texture rgb value etc). Did you have a look at Lele's tutorials on gamma correction in the chaos group forums?