Let's in-source our projects!!!

[Ernest Burden III]

As for the artistic first endeavors. I was going to be an artist but as I grew up I realized I would probably be a starving artist since my dad was a musician and we grew up dirt poor. I did submit an 'ash can' comic I did to some comic book companies, but DC was the only one who showed interest and they asked me to revise it to fit into the DC universe.

Many years ago I had a comic slated for publication in Heavy Metal, my most-loved magazine (along with Skateboarder) but they fired the art director and killed all the things he had green-lighted. I hope it wasn't my strip that got him canned. I'm actually planning to re-do that very strip as a 3D animation soon, by the way. What's a quarter-century delay?

Parents--well, this is where my issues with art vs business come from. My parents went to San Francisco in the mid 50's to do art, architecture and all things creative. My father soon owned a gallery where they sold his and his arch. school friends paintings. My parents went there to start a rendering studio so they could make extra money while my father did his three years or arch. work to get licensed. Rendering paid better than architecture, so my father did that as soon as he passed the exam.

My mother then made models for museums--dinosaurs, landform miniatures of Calif.'s geologic zones, art for planetarium slides. But she hated having a job of art, and has spent most of her life doing sculpture just for herself, not making enough to even take care of herself sometimes. She is really good, and could be doing very well with a gallery selling her work. But she won't, and won't send me enough material to get it set up for her. She just does her art off in the desert. I haven't seen her in over 15 years. Though she has email now, so I get lots of random notes.

My father did rendering, gave up architecture, because it was a better income. And he can really draw. He developed the photographic layout process that is the precursor to CG rendering. There were always architectural models all over the house, I played with them once he was done with them. But even a move to New York and being a top billing renderer there wasn't enough so he quit rendering right when I started and went more into writing books and doing workshops on marketing for A/E firms. He always worked about 80 hours a week (still does) and always talked about the business end of things rather then the art end. I can't remember the last time I saw him draw anything.

So who's right--my mother who gives up money for art or my father who gives up art for money? Or me, who tries to skate down the middle and hasn't been all that good at business and hasn't done as much personal art as I think I should be doing?

There you go--a mini memoir, even almost on-topic. Almost.

[Russell Thomas]

Many years ago I had a comic slated for publication in Heavy Metal, my most-loved magazine (along with Skateboarder) but they fired the art director and killed all the things he had green-lighted. I hope it wasn't my strip that got him canned. I'm actually planning to re-do that very strip as a 3D animation soon, by the way. What's a quarter-century delay?

.................................................. ......

So who's right--my mother who gives up money for art or my father who gives up art for money? Or me, who tries to skate down the middle and hasn't been all that good at business and hasn't done as much personal art as I think I should be doing?

There you go--a mini memoir, even almost on-topic. Almost.

Hey, I look forward to seeing it. To me comics/illustrated novels, any kind of sequential art is strongly tied to good architecture as it relates to the experience of that architecture. Take the Greeks controlled pathways, forced view ports..... kind of like world sequential art.


So who is right, I think you have to find your own path in life, what I personally resented growing up is being poor, but I guess that builds character, my mom still jokingly says "Shuffle Russell, Shuffle" relating to a saying she would use when I was a boy growing up and she didn't want people to see the uppers where worn away from the soles except for by the heal, so if I didn't shuffle my holy socked feet would pop out and if I was careful the sole would double over. What I am saying is since I can laugh about it now, I guess it wasn't too traumatizing to me, but that is why I say if you have hungry kids your priorities are different, or perhaps should be.

Great mini-memoir. We have actually met and talked before at one of Jeff's AVC awards banquetts at SIGGRAPH a few years ago in LA. I had helped him set up tables and fill goodie bags! LOL I had known you from DataCAD related stuff as well as archvis and your name from your fathers.

Always enjoy your wordings and the fact that you seem to think before you post, something I don't do!

[steve bal]

If you ever get the correct answer, give me a call.

I'm an architect licensed from Mexico, I have been in the US for a little more than 3 years now. One can be sure of what we want, but even though sometimes the environment, the market, the situation your family takes you to ways you can't fully control. I had a really nice job back in Mexico but now my family has a better quality of life. but I had to star over professionally speaking.

[Russell Thomas]

I'm curious. What percentage of your clients are architects? Come to think of it, I hear that Seattle is still a pretty hot market (like a Starbucks Latte). I'm gonna have my sales team zero in on it this week.
I'm really not kidding....

And all the artist in Seattle or the northwest are suppose to be worried is the insinuation I get from that. Knock yourself out

I agree with this point and it is unfortunate.

And yet every time it heads towards getting back on track you derail it or try to bully someone, shame on you.

Ok, but then maybe you should just keep your irrational thoughts to yourself. You shouldn't create excuses for what you say.

To me it is the recognition that I have irrational thoughts and that what may seem rational to me, may not to others and I was fondly pointing out that recognition.

But alas I am sure........... What is the point, I will take a lesson from Ernest and just ignore a lot of what you say. I will wish everyone the best of luck, take care and play nice and turn out the lights when you are done.

Thanks for the lively discussion Ernest

[Alex Fields]

[quote=EddieLeon;210757]Ok. The In-sources win. This will be my last post on this thread.

After reading this I had a faint glimmer of hope we could get this thread back on track, too good to be true.

[Brandon Hall]

Yea it looks like this isn't going to go anywhere but more arguments and debates. I thought it was great idea, but people wanted to argue more than trying to make it actually happen, except for a few people.

Russell, I think it was damn nice of you to offer your site up like that. Thanks for trying and thanks to Ernest as well.

I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. I'm modeling cars for Volvo right now so hopefully that will last a while. I'll keep watching the threads and maybe even jump in on an argument or two, but I think it's safe to say, this isn't going to happen.

[steve bal]

Even I ended posting personal matter too, this thread made me think of what can I do to be prepare for the near future. There is a bunch of smart people they can all post some thoughts about what to do, Like Eddie said about the book where it recommends to stay off the red seas or something like that. find the spot on the market. etc.

[Sawyer Fischer]

Can we just close this topic. I think the intent is dead & even though the discussion is entertaining (at times) and educational I don't think this is going anywhere.

[Jeff Mottle]

Just an FYI, I've removed the last posts to this thread into a moderation area only seen by administrators and will be stored on file. Please refrain from posting any discussions not pertaining to this thread specifically. Including any posts pertaining to personal matters that would be better dealt with behind closed doors.

Thanks.

[Richard McCarthy]

Hmm Ernest, I think it is futile exercise to go in-house/in-source. The market force is for outsourcing, you can't go against market force. There is simply nothing you can do short of electing an ultra-conservative president who start setting up tariff on everything to keep things "in-source". Even then I doubt it will work, this topic is already been explored countless times by the economists in various articles and scenerios.


The only thing I think you can do, is to actually SPEED UP the outsourcing. The world right now is trying to achieve global economic equilibrium, If the economy of third world countries actually caught up to the same level, it means their salary and wages will be the same, and without the distinct "person to person" advantage offer by the local providers. But that is not happening right now, and the longer the the first world countries resist the market force, the longer the pain it is going to be for everyone in this transitional period.



Ofcourse, there is the third scenerio, to be able to compete at this level, and you still wish to keep it all in-house/in-source....you REALLY have to streamline your business, that basically means more automation on EVERY LEVEL. Even the cheapest labourer can't compete against a robot that works 24/7 and only eats electricity. Ofcourse, the problem is the initial upfront cost with the robot itself. In this particular industry (Arch Viz), there is no robot, "robot" translate to more automation, more use of script, pre-built libraries, and eventually, it will all lead to the magical MAKE-ART BUTTON!! !!

What can I say, that's just the theoretical trend. Humour me.

And that brings to my other topic I have previously posted.
http://forums.cgarchitect.com/29542-...earing-14.html