First Interior Rendering in Mental Ray - Please Help to Improve

[illegalalieninbeijing]

Hi All,

 

I'm not too sure if this would be the right thread to discuss this. If I am wrong, my apologies to the moderator and please take whenever action that is appropriate.

 

I mostly work on exterior visualization and it is very rare or none at all I would get an interior work. This is my very first try after 3 years or so to do an interior render. I mainly used Viz 2008 utilizing the arch & materials shader and mental ray to render this. As it was also being done in CD, the model was derived from a Revit 2008 file. The architect directed much of the composition "feel" and materials of the interior. The final result which you see now pleased the architect and client very much.

 

But I am not happy with it rendering wise. Can anybody tell me how can I improve on it and make it more realistically looking? I have also attached my settings for your reference.

 

Any creative and constructive comments will be sincerely appreciated. Thanks a lot!

Edited July 1, 2008 by illegalalieninbeijing

[SandmanNinja]

Hi...

 

A few random comments as I'm walking out the door for work:

* the scale/ratio of the floor looks off. It looks too big and like it's stretched too long.

 

* the pipe near the ceiling - I think the corners where it bends should be filleted/chamfered a bit, to round them off. If it's PVC pipe, I don't think it bends that sharply

 

* the shadows by the desks are darker/stronger than the shadows of the coffee tables. Be sure to use AO (under the special effects tab).

 

* I'd turn some of the chairs slightly, to avoid the repeated identicle-ness

 

* maybe some magazines on the coffee table?

 

* the bottom of the window closest to the camera looks a bit blown out, but it could just be a sunny day.

 

* Nice reflections in the frosted glass on the left

* nice wavy surface on the ceiling - my work has something like that in it's lobby, too - not sure why... hehe

* nice rug/foot-wiping-rug by the front door

 

Keep the WIPs coming!

[Justin Hunt]

Just looking at your sun settings, a couple of things

 

1) The photon Target is way too small, it should be just large enough to fit the windows, ruff guess 15 - 20 meters

 

2) turn Off aerial Perspective, this is better for (as its name suggests) aerial shots where you want a bit of fog/distance haze on the horrizon, not so good for interirors.

 

3) Increase the sun shadow softness to clean up the shaow edge grainyness

 

Exposure control

 

1) Turn Off exterior daylight, you may need to play with the physical scale

 

GI

 

1) Increase the photon sampling radius, try 200 - 500mm

 

2) Increase the Max trace Depth, gets more light bouncing around , you may need to compensate with exposure control

 

3) leave Decay at 2

 

4) Turn On "All objects generate GI"

 

FG

 

1) increase the interpolate to 80 -100 smooths out the blotchies

 

2) Noise filtering to standard, anything higher slows down rendering too much

 

 

 

jhv

Edited July 1, 2008 by Justin Hunt

[illegalalieninbeijing]

Hi Justin,

 

Thank you very much for your time and valuable input. I will test these settings you've recommended as soon as I get home. Just a few questions:

 

Just looking at your sun settings, a couple of things

 

1) The photon Target is way too small, it should be just large enough to fit the windows, ruff guess 15 - 20 meters

 

Would this matter if my scale is 1:1mm. By increasing it to 15-20 meters, would that be really huge?

 

2) turn Off aerial Perspective, this is better for (as its name suggests) aerial shots where you want a bit of fog/distance haze on the horrizon, not so good for interirors.

 

Of course. Will do.

 

3) Increase the sun shadow softness to clean up the shaow edge grainyness

 

Will do.

 

Exposure control

 

1) Turn Off exterior daylight, you may need to play with the physical scale

 

I only have the daylight system ( mr sun & mr sky ) as light source for this scene. Does that mean I have to increase the physical scale higher than what I currently have?

 

GI

 

1) Increase the photon sampling radius, try 200 - 500mm

 

Are you pertaining to Volumes: Maximum Num. Photons Per Sample?

 

2) Increase the Max trace Depth, gets more light bouncing around , you may need to compensate with exposure control

 

Should I keep Max. Reflections & Max. Refractions the same?

 

3) leave Decay at 2

 

4) Turn On "All objects generate GI"

 

FG

 

1) increase the interpolate to 80 -100 smooths out the blotchies

 

2) Noise filtering to standard, anything higher slows down rendering too much

 

Yeah. I just figured it will make things smoother but almost none have changed.

 

jhv

 

What about Photon Map and FG Map? Do you think it is much better to do freezes/saves? I find it a little bit troublesome doing it and it works pretty well without it. What do you think?

 

Thank you very much I'm sure these will definitely help.

[Ky Lane]

For mine, it needs some interior lighting - looks only sun lit at the moment, some halogens over the desk or something, give some nice sharp shadows etc.

[illegalalieninbeijing]

Hi Joel,

 

Thank you very much for your comments.

 

Hi...

 

A few random comments as I'm walking out the door for work:

* the scale/ratio of the floor looks off. It looks too big and like it's stretched too long.

 

I agree with you. I will adjust this.

 

* the pipe near the ceiling - I think the corners where it bends should be filleted/chamfered a bit, to round them off. If it's PVC pipe, I don't think it bends that sharply

 

It is a zig-zagged SS tubular. According to the plans (refer to attachment 01.jpg), it is pointy at the corners not chamfered. The perspective is making it distorted as it is near the foreground. Any suggestions how to fix this?

 

* the shadows by the desks are darker/stronger than the shadows of the coffee tables. Be sure to use AO (under the special effects tab).

Yeah. I knew that will be noticeable. I only have the daylight systems as light source and relying on the photons to illuminate the interior.

 

* I'd turn some of the chairs slightly, to avoid the repeated identicle-ness

 

Yeah. At first I used (everybody's favorite) a Barcelona chair then a Le Corbusier lounge chair in the scene. Until I realized they selected a chair from a catalogue. I have to model it from scratch and applying UVW map on it was really a pain. That's the closest I could get. But I guess turning it slightly would be a good idea.

 

* maybe some magazines on the coffee table?

 

I really wanted to do that.

 

* the bottom of the window closest to the camera looks a bit blown out, but it could just be a sunny day.

 

Yep. MR sun setting is at 12 - ish in the afternoon

 

* Nice reflections in the frosted glass on the left

* nice wavy surface on the ceiling - my work has something like that in it's lobby, too - not sure why... hehe - would it happen it came from www.3-form.com?

 

* nice rug/foot-wiping-rug by the front door - couldn't get it right in my bump map so I applied noise in photoshop. Works better that way.

 

Keep the WIPs coming!

 

Thanks for the comments. I will update you on a new render soon.

Edited July 2, 2008 by illegalalieninbeijing

[Ky Lane]

For the piping, Id just round the edges off a bit to simulate a weld. Pretty sure theres material ways of rounding the corners off asopposed to geometry. www.google.com

[illegalalieninbeijing]

For mine, it needs some interior lighting - looks only sun lit at the moment, some halogens over the desk or something, give some nice sharp shadows etc.

 

You are right. I only used a daylight system to light up everything. As for the rest of the lighting fixtures, some have a self illumination applied to it. It just glows but never gives out light. I tried putting lights in the pinlight fixtures but my boss doesn't like the way it bounces on the wavy glass thingy and on the floor. Probably my settings. It looks like it is producing photons or some sort. Any Ideas?

[Ky Lane]

Justin would have a better idea - he's my jedi master in terms of MR at the moment

 

But personally, Id just have some nice halogen fixture over the desks.

 

What part of Van you from? I spent 8 months there, and am looking to head back for a MTB holiday soonish

[illegalalieninbeijing]

Justin would have a better idea - he's my jedi master in terms of MR at the moment

 

But personally, Id just have some nice halogen fixture over the desks.

 

What part of Van you from? I spent 8 months there, and am looking to head back for a MTB holiday soonish

 

Hey.

 

Yeah I read in one of the threads that you were here before. It hasn't rained for days and it's about 23 degrees C today. Really good. Work is in downtown Vancouver but I live in Burnaby. Oh yeah, today is also Canada day! Hooray!

[Ky Lane]

Happy Canada Day! best dollar pizza ever on the corner of Granville and Davie!

 

Ah I miss Vancouver, sometimes We're apparently in the middle of winter, blue skies, 25 degrees... go figure

[Justin Hunt]

FG/GI Freeze, absolutly, if you generate the FG GI at half the final res, freeze and re-render at full res is quicker than FG/GI at full res. Dont go too small though. Although for testing dont bother.

 

Photon tagret - this has nothing to do with the size of the photons but rather the area where the phtons first hit. Think of it as a tube down which the photons are shot. At the moment the photons are focused on a pin head, and I would hazard a guess that most of the scene is being light by FG rather than the photons.

 

The exterior daylight is for exteriors, behind the scene mathermatics are adjusted by this toggle. For interiors try physical scale of 1500+. If you have max2008 or higher use mrphotographic exposure instead. Not too sure if Viz2008 has it though

 

Photon sampling radius controls the detail of the illumination by photons, small radius ->more detail -> more photons, larger radius->smoother/less detail->fewer photons. its a balancing act to find the right numbers

 

Leave the max reflection/refraction as is, these control how the lighting solution looks in refections and refractions, play with these if you have errors in the reflections/refractions

 

anyone please correct me if I havn't explained properly

 

jhv

[illegalalieninbeijing]

Hi Guys,

 

My apologies for not posting the amended version of what I've asked you guys to help with. I've managed to tinker with it with all of Justin's recommendations and came up with different appearances. I think I finally found out what's wrong after reading a portion of that book I have. I will post it again soon - just a little bit occupied.

 

Ky Lane - Let us know if you're in town.

 

Thanks a lot guys!

[koolsaini]

I cannot see any pic ?

[liniekveera]

I cannot see any pic ?

 

I too cant..

This is my 1st post here

[jgs]

no pic...

hello

[chriswetzel]

You are right. I only used a daylight system to light up everything. As for the rest of the lighting fixtures, some have a self illumination applied to it. It just glows but never gives out light. I tried putting lights in the pinlight fixtures but my boss doesn't like the way it bounces on the wavy glass thingy and on the floor. Probably my settings. It looks like it is producing photons or some sort. Any Ideas?

 

Preface: For some reason I cannot see the image you attached. However, without seeing it, I know that you can exclude the "wavy glass thingy at the floor" from the lighting, so it does not create the reflections your boss does not like. It could be done a few ways. The first being to select the object, right click, and go to properties. In that menu there is an option to exclude from global illumination. This likely will still leave your relfections. You also could adjust the far attenuation of the pinlight light sources, so it stops light before it hits the glass thingy. Another way would be to select the material for the glass thingy in the materials editor and flag it as opaque.

 

Also, you could change the light source to "ambient only", however that will mean the light will not cast any of the shadows you're looking for. I would adjust the far attenuation of the lights until the reflections look like you want.

 

Good luck.