Administrators Jeff Mottle Posted July 3, 2008 Administrators Share Posted July 3, 2008 A now banned member of these forums was soliciting CGA forum users to run an application on their WIBU keys to gain access to crack the software. We are currently tracing all solicitations from this member and anyone who responded. We have notified Chaos Group with this member's IP and contact information. IT IS ILLEGAL to run any third party programs that reverse engineer and/or cracks a WIBU dongle. If you replied to or emailed a user called "Benwal" we will be forwarding your name, contact information and IP address to Chaos Group for possible legal prosecution and we will aid in this endeaor in any way we can. Anyone who posts about or replies to anything relating to illegal activities will be permanatly banned on these forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Back up a minute - that's only illegal in countries with DMCA-like laws. If he's not in one of those countries, and anybody he eventually may have got to help him was not, he didn't commit any crime. (But did violate forum rules and deserves permanent bans and maybe a heads up to other forums' admins.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Sher Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 nothing like good old fashion threats of lawyers...Only in America...lol.. Yeah sue them all i say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jeff Mottle Posted July 3, 2008 Author Administrators Share Posted July 3, 2008 nothing like good old fashion threats of lawyers...Only in America...lol.. Yeah sue them all i say... When it comes to the blatent theft or attempted theft of someones intellectual property, damn straight the infringer should be sued and in my personal opinion imprissoned. It's theft plain and simple and a very expensive theft at that when software is cracked. In any case the point of this post was to once again explain to this community we don't tollerate warez, cracking or pirating and I fully support handing over any information to ensure the parties responsible are held accountable. Peter and Vlado have already been advised and they have the info to do with as they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 nothing like good old fashion threats of lawyers...Only in America...lol.. Yeah sue them all i say... Jeff is in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 (edited) wait a miniute IP is also a human rights violation on many levels. i subscribe fully the the pirate parties platform on this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party I sure am glad there is no hardware lock for the new Vray on Rhinoceros i don't think the users would stand for this. ideas can not be owned according to the laws of mathematics (you know the ones the universe operates on) try as they may allot of people try to resist to enrich them selfs and prevent people of lower classes from access to the tools, but in the end that is always fruitless and a waste of energy and cuases bad feelings between people of different worldviews. Edited July 3, 2008 by Antisthenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I sure am glad there is no hardware lock for the new Vray on Rhinoceros i don't think the users would stand for this. Why? They don't seem any more restrictive than software based licensing. With Vray for Max it seemed the only trouble was for people who didn't receive their dongles quickly - and IIRC Chaos allowed software licenses until they got it sorted out. In some cases hardware dongles are less restrictive because the license travels with the dongle, so you can use it at home or office. And if they're harder to crack around, they're probably worthwhile - the only real problem being if it takes longer to get the license after you buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 and more easily bypassed, it's already been fixed from what i know. what ever a human can make a human can break and you can never discount that many people got a start this way no matter how taboo it is to talk about or how upset it makes capitalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 If your language weren't so confusing I'd guess you were dangling on the edge of a forum rules violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ky Lane Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Theyll do what Microsoft did, make earlier versions easy(ier) to hack and wait till everyone is reliant on it, then produce a 'Genuine Software Validation/Activation Tool' to install that job critical update you need to make it render anything ever again Truth is, warez/cracking etc has its place in the market for the reasons mentioned above - but, still doesnt make it right/legal/just/honourable, especially if youre making money from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneis Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 If your language weren't so confusing I'd guess you were dangling on the edge of a forum rules violation. How so? Sounded like someone expressing an opinion to me. One man's opinion is simply that - one man's opinion. The fact that over 50% of Swedish citizens agree with that opinion should add some amount of relevance. I know that CGA can not, will not and should not support any form of illegal practice, however methinks that quashing personal opinions is a little extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 The post was edited... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneis Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Oh yes, so it was. Thanks for clarifying and my apologies for drawing incorrect conclusions. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 doesnt make it right/legal/just/honourable, especially if youre making money from it. or adobe for that matter too. i agree that money being made on something you 'demoed' would be questionable to y not at that point wouldn't the user make a purchase. this is also the reason i push alternatives so as to give choices often times offering more value for those willing to break away from the mainstream that has in many cases been exploiting them more and more. when people stand together we can negotiate better terms with these lifeless corporations only bent on bottom line profits and esthetically upgrades that are merely bug fixes at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znotlin Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 (edited) wait a miniute IP is also a human rights violation on many levels. i subscribe fully the the pirate parties platform on this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party I sure am glad there is no hardware lock for the new Vray on Rhinoceros i don't think the users would stand for this. ideas can not be owned according to the laws of mathematics (you know the ones the universe operates on) try as they may allot of people try to resist to enrich them selfs and prevent people of lower classes from access to the tools, but in the end that is always fruitless and a waste of energy and cuases bad feelings between people of different worldviews. From the Babylonians through the Renaissance mathematicians inventors etc... DIDn't share their insights, until the printing press and possible recompense made it feasible to do so. The lesson here is if you want free flow of information and people to develop new software, (which I for one, do) you need to protect them with strong IP rights, so they have a motivation to do so, or potential wealth. There are always the nefarious, like Autodesk justifying expensive bogus upgrades, but if they do that enough we'll all make the move to Maxon. On your other topics, if VRay makes you significantly more productive in Rhino than Flamingo, than yes, those users will put up with it. With regards to the bad feelings you want to avoid. We finally have a technology that actually can reach into the developing world and give people the ability to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. Will they be angry they have to pay? Maybe, but likely not if they are coming from a background where they've learned the world owes them nothing, or most developing countries. They may not be able to save enough, and be dishearented by the barrier to entry (even if the goal is more attianable than it ever was), but likely not resentful or angry. The resentment you describe, and want to avoid only tends to arise in people raised in socialist/progressive or privledged environs, who do tend to believe the world owes them something. People who have time to dream up the "injustice" dealt them, and rationaize theft. Edited July 14, 2008 by znotlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creasia Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 You have my full support Jeff. Go get em. Neither Jeff nor Chaos Group are in the US. Are there no laws against piracy in Europe? I would like to see that there is some kind of organization that can police this kind of thing somewhere other than in North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 There's a difference between piracy and creating an enabling technology for piracy. The latter is legal is many places. (Don't try this because it would still be wrong and I'm not a lawyer, but) you could probably use the same argument DVD Jon used in Norway, and Elcomsoft wasn't breaking Russian law when they put out Advanced EBook Processor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 for sure nobody wants to be locked out to be able to subvert something gives us a feeling that we are free we all value the worth of great software and do our best to support what get us where we have come so we can keep progressing and getting more great tools. altruism is in our genes here is a new site about information services being a right on slashdot today it seems to somehow relate "The FSF just announced the results of a meeting it held on software freedom and network services. They are hailing the launch of a new group called Autonomo.us to follow up on these issues and the publication of the Franklin Street Statement on Freedom and Network Services which lays out a set of recommendations and guidelines for protecting freedom for software as a service." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike. Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 The resentment you describe, and want to avoid only tends to arise in people raised in socialist/progressive or privledged environs, who do tend to believe the world owes them something. People who have time to dream up the "injustice" dealt them, and rationaize theft. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlytE Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 The resentment you describe, and want to avoid only tends to arise in people raised in socialist/progressive or privledged environs, who do tend to believe the world owes them something. People who have time to dream up the "injustice" dealt them, and rationaize theft. best statment ive read in a forum in a long time. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 it is not just a dream. imagine if you lived in any place with Less GDP than you do now. where something that might cost you 300 costs 32,000 (as an extreme African example from a Wired article) the concept of deserve is a myth that is a integral part of any domination system, and that applies to both sides. In the end nobody wants to be dominated and knowing you can escape a trap if you feel like it and help out the less fortunate to be more learned where they could never other wise be seems like a positive. who losses out? the profits of a few lifeless institutions. who gains? all life in the arena of knowledge being freely available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 ur my idol! Ward Churchill once told me 'don't have heroes'(idols) you could understand why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Lifeless institutions? What about the people who own and work for those companies? Your buddies at McNeel, the guys I know who work for Autodesk and Microsoft, Vlado and his Chaosgroup people? These people work hard on their products and expect to be paid for their work, same as you do. Would you want to see people copying your drawings? It's true, money does not scale well between the US and some other countries, but what is Chaosgroup or Autodesk supposed to do about it? I'd bet they'd love it if everybody in the world could afford to buy their products, but they can't, and the software companies can't just give up and die. The people who can't afford this software still have other options - Sketchup Free, Blender, free CAD programs, Yafray, Indigo, Kerkythea, Gimp, etc. They could be downloading that free distro of Ubuntu that includes a crapload of free production software instead of stealing their software. If you said that copyright law has gone too far recently, with the Mickey Mouse time extension, the DMCA, fair use getting killed off, of course I'd agree with you - the restrictions on what you can do with material you've already paid for are getting pretty obnoxious - but the ability of developers to charge for software is very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jeff Mottle Posted July 15, 2008 Author Administrators Share Posted July 15, 2008 but the ability of developers to charge for software is very important. Yeah this whole concept that everything in the world should be free seems a bit absurd to me, at least in the context of capitalist economy, which currently dominates most of the free world. If someone wants to make free software, I'm all for it, but not at the expense of those who would like to make a living selling their own inventions/products or softwares etc. Jonas, in reading your posts are you upset that not everyone can afford software or that you actually have to pay for it? Or both? Are you in favor of pirating/cracking when someone can not afford something? By that logic the world would resort to looting and anarchy so they could all have whatever they wanted and could not afford. Either that or the world needs to move to a socialist/communist political/economic structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I'm not upset I am just saying what can be done will be done on both sides, and of course I support the developers who bring me the tools I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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