Huge, Scary Decision!

[Bwana Kahawa]

Right folks, I've got a huge decision to make and would appreciate some impartial advice!

 

I currently head up the graphics studio in an architecture firm in Norwich. It's just myself who does the visuals here. I'm quite happy here and hadn't considered moving. Got a house, a good bunch of mates, my wife has a job she enjoys in the city, so all is well.

 

I've recently been offered a job in a visualisation firm elsewhere in the UK, which would of course mean moving. Although it's for a well established (and well-regarded) visualisation firm, it'd be a new office for them with a new set of clients. I'd be one of the initial team.

 

I have a month to decide and am currently completely torn! There are definite advantages and disadvantages to both. Unfortunately everyone I speak to about is biased in some way so it's very difficult to get a different perspective on it! So I was hoping you folks here might help me to consider things I haven't thought of.

 

Has anyone made the leap from working in-house at an architects to working for a visualisation firm?!

 

One of the big things I'm worried about is the current housing market - trying to sell our house and buy a more expensive one in the new place (where living costs are higher) isn't the easiest thing with the current recession.

 

Another thing is job security. I've basically got a job here as long as I want it, whereas joining a satellite office in the middle of a recession might not be the safest career move...

 

Another issue is where the visualisation industry is heading - if BIM and related technologies really take off then it might start converging with architects' CAD packages. In which case, the place to work may be an arch firm...

 

However, there are just as many reasons to go for it - new challenges, the opportunity to learn from some top people, high profile clients, 'a new life'...

 

What would you do?!

[Jason Bergeron]

I don't have any direct experience with this situation, but just from how you worded your post, you seem to be leaning toward staying put. The negatives you listed are pretty scary.

 

Got a house, a good bunch of mates, my wife has a job she enjoys in the city, so all is well.

 

 

I think this is the most revealing sentence in your post, especially the wife being happy part. What does she think of this?

[amer abidi]

I've just closed down my studio of 8 years to head up the graphics dept at a huge architectural firm here in this region. The viz market is not stable, and most of the large offices are now opening up departments and doing their work in house.

 

besides.. why would you want to leave something solid and that makes you happy for a studio that seems like it still has a 50/50 chance?!

 

I say stay mate.. grow with what you have.

[Bwana Kahawa]

She doesn't mind either way. Neither of us are from Norwich so she doesn't feel too many ties to here.

 

I guess it's easier to list definite negatives for going, which is probably why my post leans that way. The negatives for staying are harder to quantify - stuff along the lines of lack of ambition, staying in the same job for my entire life, missing out on high-profile projects, having no-one around to learn from (in terms of visualisation), etc.

 

I've been questioning why people aim for the top and strive to be better - I've essentially been offered the top (or at least nearer it) - this could be my (only?) chance to work with some of the best in the world on some amazing projects - I can't guarantee I'll ever have that, if I stay where I am...

 

How important is ambition and career progression in this industry? Is it okay to always work in the same job?!

[sparksue]

Even though i am new here. I believe that sometime oppunity will not always come to you.

 

Yes there's a fear in it...but then 5 yrs down the road...will you be able to stay at the top of your game while staying at your work place?

 

I will say just go for it. you have only 1 life...once miss it you will miss it. Most important is that your wife support you! Do something that you won't regret..

[SandmanNinja]

How important is ambition and career progression in this industry? Is it okay to always work in the same job?!

 

They use to call that "Job Stability" when I was younger...

 

Millionaire goes to Mexico and tries to rent a boat.

Mexican says, "I only have 1 boat and it's already being used for fishing. We are a simple people. I and my family live in this simple village, we rise with the sun, we do the work that we need to do, and we spend our time together in our hut on the beach."

 

Millionaire says, "You need to buy 10 more boats. Hire crews. In 10 years you'll have those 10 boats paid for and you can buy 20 newer, bigger boats. Eventually you will have those paid for."

 

The Mexican says, "And then what would I do?"

 

The Millionaire says, "Why, you can sell your Boating Empire and retire to a little village and live with your beautiful family in a little hut on the beach..."

[alfienoakes]

They use to call that "Job Stability" when I was younger...

 

Millionaire goes to Mexico and tries to rent a boat.

Mexican says, "I only have 1 boat and it's already being used for fishing. We are a simple people. I and my family live in this simple village, we rise with the sun, we do the work that we need to do, and we spend our time together in our hut on the beach."

 

Millionaire says, "You need to buy 10 more boats. Hire crews. In 10 years you'll have those 10 boats paid for and you can buy 20 newer, bigger boats. Eventually you will have those paid for."

 

The Mexican says, "And then what would I do?"

 

The Millionaire says, "Why, you can sell your Boating Empire and retire to a little village and live with your beautiful family in a little hut on the beach..."

 

I like that.. very good. I suppose I have never looked at it like that.

 

I would look at the quality of what you have now. The mere fact you are questioning it, perhaps says you are happy where you are. And so what if you stay where you are for life..? So what if it looks like no ambition.. Who says ..?

 

Coupled with the economic climate, I personally, would be looking for stability right now. Any effects of the down turn havent bottomed out yet... you could be taking a position that in 6 months is no longer there. Having said that, how are the architects you work for doing..? Have you started to lay people off yet..? I work for a big firm of Architects, and do my own stuff away from work, I can tell you, we have laid people off, and people I do private work for have laid people off...

 

Deep down, you probably know what you want to do..

[dean@pikcells]

i did my work placement in a large architects and moved to a visualisation studio.

 

it was the best thing for me, and ive learnt so much from being here, and people around me have learnt from the skill ive brought. working in a studio and in a team is hard to adjust to, and can be wierd working on a project for only a small part of it, but thats how good teams work.

 

with regards to job safety, are architects really secure? how many delevopments have you seen binned recently in the UK?

 

i guess it depends on what you want to get out of a job, if you are happy where you are, then i guess its hard.

 

id personally try to imagine making the decision without any other issues or commitments first. then work out rest later

[STRAT]

it is a toughy.

 

i moved from my safe-as-houses job exactly a year ago to join a newly formed firm with only 3 members of staff. Difference being for me was that it was in the same town as where my last job was.

 

In your position it might be best solution to stay put in the near future. i dont think the time is right to rock the boat so to speak if you have stability already in the UK. (I might have a different attitude if you were young, free, single, family/house less and fancy free etc etc, but you're not).

 

What you might like to consider though if you're after something of a change or a 'fresh' outlook is to freelance or do private work in your free time. I did this for the last couple of years of my employment in my old firm. i did the odd visualisation job in my home office (ok, spare bedroom) in the evenings and weekends and got such a blast from doing it. (and a nice bit of extra pocket money too).

[innerdream]

Ask the new place how long will their current work load last? If it's not a year or more forget it.

 

There is more Architectural work than there is rendering work in the world so I would be inclined to stay put unless the new firm is at the top of the heap.

Edited September 15, 2008 by innerdream

[3dp]

for my twopence

i drifted into viz work from pure architecture being unable to draw freehand it got ato apoint 5 years ago where i flew solo and was even outsourcing projects 18 months i saw a slow down in workload and a drop fees and elected to move back to architecture and put viz on the back burner in fact i went working overseas (still do the odd project for uk clinets and some don't even know i'm abroad.....)

i think what i am trying to say is right now the grass is not greener elsewhere and visualisation as a business needs a lot to feed it if you throw in with a company elsewhere you've lost your network - true you may learn a few gags but now is a time to consolidate skills and being close to the designers you will pick up more than in a vizhouse (sweatshop??)

i'm old enough to have been through 1 recession and that drove me to be never out of work

two years ago i'd have said move but the downturn in uk was obvious right from northern rock going pear shaped

[Solomon]

are the people you are working for reading this forum?

 

I would be careful trying to find advice on the web not knowing who might be reading - they just might start looking for someone to replace you seeing as you seem to be wanting to jump ship

 

 

my advice would be to stay put - and like someone else mentioned - if you want to scratch that itch, and be challenged, do freelance work - you will get the high of a new challenge and an extra paycheck in the process.

 

And there are so many tutorials on the web now, that you can't say you only need people close by to learn something new.

[Bwana Kahawa]

Cheers for the responses guys - given me loads to think about

 

are the people you are working for reading this forum?

 

I would be careful trying to find advice on the web not knowing who might be reading - they just might start looking for someone to replace you seeing as you seem to be wanting to jump ship

 

They already know, as I wanted to get their advice about where my career was heading, and also to pre-warn them that they might need to find someone else! They're trying pretty hard to get me to stay, which is nice!

 

Although freelance evening work is a good idea, I already do some, and to be honest, they're much less inspiring projects than my day job! Mind you, I only have one regular client, so if I pushed it I could maybe find some more interesting stuff.

 

The company I'm with has a stable line of work - no lay-offs yet, so I'm pretty sure my job is here to stay. However, the new job also claims to have more work than its other offices can handle, so it sounds reasonably stable too.

 

The impression I'm getting is that the more, er, 'experienced' folks on this forum seem to be advocating staying. Job security is a hugely important thing to me, especially as I'll probably become a dad at some point in the next few years. I'm also a very risk-averse person, so the natural thing for me is to stay where I am.

 

Only problem is I'd always have that gnawing 'what if...' feeling about the new job...

[3dway]

If I read into your post, I see that you have stated the negatives yet are still considering it despite those. You have considered the positives of your current positoin and are still considering it.

 

It makes me suspect that you are not as happy with your situation as you say.

 

Ecenomic downturn is a risk. I can't speak about that. I've only had two weeks of boredom in my 10 year career (in architecture, not in viz). We had everything in the office filed, cleaned, stored, archived, then I played solitaire for two weeks, then it picked up again.

 

If you have a good enough resume, enough years of experience, and a good enough portfolio you will always be able to get work; some kind of work. Maybe not the dream job, but some work. If you don't take the chance and the dream job, you will never get it and you will will still be doing work' some kind of work. Maybe not the dream job, but some work.

[Iain Denby]

I've noticed a huge slow down in enquiries for viz work here in the UK, so 'going for it' might be more risky that it normally would.

 

It's possible the situation could be 'last in, first out'.

 

Then again, nothing is forever and we have no control over the future, whatever we decide.

 

(That's a great help, isn't it?)

[johnvid]

After starting with one firm and taking over the visualisation of a large development project, the client asked me to come and work for them, as I had just started with the firm, I felt in order to make the leap I needed a huge incentive. I asked for 6 months salary upfront and I would consider it. This would have enabled me to get all the kit I wanted to work for sooner.

Needless to say they declined and I stayed put. That firm is now experiencing the slowdown.

[RyanSpaulding]

I cannot stress this enough.

 

DO NOT LEAVE YOUR JOB/LOCATION FOR THE ARCH VIZ FIELD RIGHT NOW. You are asking for problems if you do.

[Bwana Kahawa]

Well thanks for all the advice, guys. After a couple of lengthy talks with my current employers, I've decided to stick where I am. It seems to be the common-sense thing to do, if the less glamorous one!

 

Maybe in a couple of years once the economy has got back on its feet, who knows...

[adamf]

Derek,

 

I did exactly what you are thinking about 3 months ago.

 

I had worked as the only visualiser in a firm of 80 architects and was really happy in my job, I had been there 10 years and had no intention of leaving.

 

I was approached by a viz firm who I had always regarded as the best, so I just couldnt turn the oppurtunity down. It's been hard work going from being the best to realising that I actually know nothing and everyone else is churning out amazing work, but I'm learning a lot so i don't regret it.

 

I wouldnt have moved to any other viz firm let me make that clear, I didn't have to sell my house or anything just move across London and take a large salary cut.

 

My advice would be look at this viz companies website and see how good there work is, if you think you could really move forward and learn a hell of a lot and its going to benefit you that much then do it. But if your work isn't that far off as good as there's already then stick around in your job for a while longer.

 

Chances are they will take you on again in a year or two's time when the housing market has improved and things are more stable if you still want to go. There are plenty of great viz firms in London if your work is good enough and you wouldnt have to move and up root your family to move there.

 

Hope that helps.

[Mat@MDI-Digital]

Iv not read anyone else post on this but I think i know a bit about this..

 

 

4 years back (I was about your age) I quit my job in Bournemouth, moved to Norwich, got a mortgage based upon the wages I earnt in my last job (which I think may be been illegal - getting a mortgage agreement and quitting my job), I had 4k in the bank and neither me or my wife had any work, or any way of paying the mortgage. For a while things where a little tight. But kept all my fingers crossed that everything worked out fine. I have now sold that house and bought a better one and pretty much have the mortgage paid off...its my only debt. I really don't have anything to worry about, and I am soooooooo much happier working for myself than someoe else.

 

My attitude was very much this : If I don't do it now will I live to regret it. I desiced I would.

 

So thats the good news, heres the not so good news.

I recently taken on a partner, thats good news btw, but heres the interesting bit...

 

My partner still owns a flat in Bournemouth, and hes trying to sell, in the 5 months hes been in Norwich only 4 people have viewed it. Hes in a situation where hes paying £600 a month mortgage on that flat and £550 a month for the small house hes renting in Norwich. So because of the current climate things have become very expensive for him.

 

Also, (and maybe this is totally down to us) the arch work has definitely slowed up over the last 6 months. 95% of the work we do is for property developers like Persimmon homes who where the 1st of the large developers to panic!

 

Good luck with whatever you deside to do. I think though you have one benefit that I never had and thats you have experience working in the (one of) the cites/countys best architectural practices. Im sure if it didn't work out there always other practices who would snap you up.

 

Oh....and if you do jump ship let me know, im sure they will be looking for freelancers

Edited November 11, 2008 by Mat@MDI-Digital

[Mat@MDI-Digital]

Edit/follow up.....just read the thread, which I should have done before I wrote the above!

 

I think you made the right decision. If it was 2 years ago I would say jump ship without question though

[Bwana Kahawa]

Cheers Matt. Glad I made the decision I did - it already seems tougher out there. At least we've just secured a few decent projects here so I'm definitely in a more solid position working for an architects!

 

Derek