how do "you" dimension an angled wall?

[Krisidious]

how do "you" dimension an angled wall? and no, I don't mean putting a radii dimensions on it... I mean several angled walls, such as shown in my example.

[bev.lynn]

Welcome to the forum Kristoff.

As to the answer to your question, what software are you using? In autocad it's called an aligned dimension.

[Krisidious]

I guess I should have clarified, I use Auotcad... and I know how to use all of the dimension tools... I'm just wondering how others go about dimensioning angled walls, aligned, grid system, radius etc etc... this is purely philosophical.

 

thanks for the welcome...

[Peter M. Gruhn]

Just a student here, so not a lot of real world experience. My concern would be doing it the way that got it built right and allowed for variation in construction.

 

In the example, more important than certain walls being 12'-4" is that certain of them are parallel. When timber hits concrete that may mean that this wall is an eigth or an inch off spec. So I'd not that - "these walls to be parallel". Certain walls have to be exactly this big in order to accomodate windows from the factory, others can allow for some slop.

 

How will the contractor actually lay them out? (By stepping them back four inches from the edge of the slab!)

 

My inclination would be to think that they'll bring in surveying equipment and strike angles. If that were the case then I'd mark the angles between certain walls and figure out which one I didn't care about and mark it as variable. Plus or minus n degrees?

 

An overlay grid strikes me as not being very accurate for two reasons - more annoying to lay out in the field (would it be? I suppose they do it all the time for column grids?) and unless it was designed that way, the corners wouldn't land anywhere nice.

 

It looks like this particular project has a site north and a project north and maybe fewer weird walls than it looks like. Could the north wall of Suite 1 be 20' east of the west wall along the project system and then 6" in to locate the corner? I can imagine the contractor liking "put the wall where it's supposed to go but bring this corner down 6"" but I can't imagine their liking to keep track of various coordinate systems.

 

Here's an idea. It's going back to a variation on the grid... Find or create an origin. Draw baselines through that. One at 90deg, one at 80deg (or whatever it is, cut me some slack ;-). Then specify these parallel walls (Suite 1 west wall and Dining east wall) as offsets from that. I don't think those two Dining walls are parallel.

 

If the project were just Suite 1's east wall then I'd give lengths for north and south walls and say the east wall is "as required".

 

Print it out 1:1, roll it out on site and peg it.

[ronel]

we normally set a reference point or grid on the plan (an x and y axis) then reference all corner from that point, since getting the angle of each corner is trouble some on part of those who will build it, the x and y logic will do better. we do it like this

 

[3dway]

This got kind of fragmented and confused. I thought I had a good answer, but as I munched on my lunch and typed it out, I came to realize there is no right answer. Here are the broken pieces of my thoughts anyhow:

 

"Ask yourself how you or your contractor will be building it"

For construction documents.

This looks like a house, so if it's wood frame, you dimension the foundation walls with building them in mind, then you dimension the upper exterior walls with cost estimating in mind, since (assuming they're over a foundation wall) the walls above the foundation just follow what is already built, though no solution is absolute (then you have to show opening locations which are relative to the built walls). To build the wood frame walls, the contractor has to site measure the existing conditions anyhow. Residential formworkers don't seem to have any penchant for accuracy. I'd say it wouldn't be silly to expect them to be out by up to two inches on any measurement which doesn't fall on a form width.

 

It's really only the foundation guys that need dimensions from a reference point or similar layout method. Once the exterior walls that follow the foundation are in place, the interior walls, or walls that may not follow what is already built are easy to dimension thinking of the exterior walls as reference lines.

 

I liked my last boss' philosophy; the drawings aren't a Mechano set, they're a vehicle to help reach an end product. They can tell the contractor fairly specifically what, where, how much. In the end we have to rely in the contractors to be the experts at building. We just draw something that is practical and plausible. If the builder needs more or different dimensions than what you've provided when it comes time to build, it's his job to ask for them (assuming he's had enough information up to that point to cost estimate the job etc). Every contractor builds differently too. So not every builder needs the same dimensions. How often have you been in an office where you had the "dim to finished face, or to framing" debate?

 

Also ask: "who is using the drawing" Maybe it's a marketing drawing.

In that case, you need to provide dimensions (including areas) to finished faces (maybe).

[Tella]

Triangulate!

 

Dimension diagonals. That makes it easy when making the layout.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Tella

[William Alexander]

I'm just wondering how others go about dimensioning angled walls, aligned, grid system, radius etc etc... this is purely philosophical.

 

there's nothing Philosophical about it..... angles-NO, Grid System-?????

radius- LOL --------- Think about who's doing the actual end construction, as alluded to earlier in the thread.

 

Some where someone will set up a 90 degree angle of two walls....everything can be dimensioned from those adn or from parrallel dimesnions based on that. So for the angled walls give dimensions parrallel to the known 90 degree walls with projected & offset dimesnions to pionts on the angled walls. 'Anyone' can dimesnion from those with a fair amount of accuracy... anyone is the key word.

 

Really shouldn't even responded but, been on both sides design & construction. Honestly most construction drawings take on shades of beging "Funny Papers" or the really bad ones are best deemed "tiolet paper". Seen a number of good designs botched cause the tradesman could'nt figure it out... unfortunately the designers don't figure for the lowest common denominator when dimensioning.

 

Hell I can figure angles like those in the reference but in the end it's easier just pulling a couple lines to find interesections of corner. We have protractors and such in the cabinet shop.... angled dimesnions in paln views for cutting of actual pieces just make for wasted materials and hours-we give 'em points-corners to play connect the dots. LOL cabinet makers are generally a step up from masons and carpenters in measuring skills

 

end of rambling