color managment

[meghraj]

ok, what should be proper workflow to calibrate and profiling monitor pls tell start to end ?

what should be photoshop workflow once we done with calibrating and profilng?

[Jeff Mottle]

Explaining the entire set up process is too long to do in a forum thread, but if you Google there are a lot of resources out there on how to set up color management and Photoshop. I will of course be glad to answer any specific questions you have. One of the best books out there for color management can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Col...tt_at_ep_dpt_2 it's out of print, but used copies can still be had. I also wrote a 60 page chapter in this book: http://shop.cgarchitect.com/books-an...to-expert.html which is a crash course on color management in the context of an arch viz workflow.

I would also get a Color Munki Display http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=275 for your hardware calibrator. It comes with the software.

[meghraj]

thanks jeff,

its is very interested, imported and vast subject.its take time to understand in detail. u doing great job keep it up.

i will keep this thread alive and will post my problem time to time. thanks again.

[Jeff Mottle]

thanks jeff,

its is very interested, imported and vast subject.its take time to understand in detail. u doing great job keep it up.

i will keep this thread alive and will post my problem time to time. thanks again.

Yes, I know. I've read over 2,000 pages on the subject of color management and over 10 years of hands on experience to get to the point I am. It can be a very confusing subject to understand. The chapter I wrote is a summary of all of that knowledge to try to get people up to speed as quickly as possible.

[mark runza]

hey guys, i'm new here but am having such problems. I purchased a spyder 3 pro monitor calibrator, the first of my problems is that my laptop screen and my desk top screen look slightly different but i'm assuming my desktop screen is better quality therefore must be more accurate.

My second problem is everything! my vray frame buffer looks slightly different to my 3ds frame buffer (loss of contrast and colour) and then photoshop looks completely different as well. To top it all off when i upload to my website it can look different again! its a bit of a nightmare if im honest.

i started by calibrating my screen, i set 3ds max to 2.2 and such. i am using linear multiply with 2.2 and dont effect colors. I know it may be way to much to ask but all i want is for me to view my renders as they are on the vray frame buffer in photoshop, firefox and on my laptop considering i have calibrated both. In photoshop should i be setting my color profile to the profile that my calibrator created. I just read that you should keep it as srgb. Sorry to proberly rehash a lot of answered questions but there is nothing more frustrating than seeing your work as you like it in the vray frame buffer but no where else!

if anyone could help i would be forever in your debt. P.s i use a dell lcd screen.

[mark runza]

shouive calibrated my monitor, should i be changing the photoshop color settings to my new calibrated profile or keeping it srgb. ive uploaded a picture. ive noticed if i change it to adobe rgb its a massive different yet if i just convert the picture to adobe rgb its not so bad. the point im trying to make is. ... what should i have my photoshop settings set to if i want to get as close to my vray frame buffer as possible as i assume 3ds max is using the color profile my spyder created?wwww.jpg

[Jeff Mottle]

hey guys, i'm new here but am having such problems. I purchased a spyder 3 pro monitor calibrator, the first of my problems is that my laptop screen and my desk top screen look slightly different but i'm assuming my desktop screen is better quality therefore must be more accurate.

Without knowing your exact systems I can't say for sure, but generally most laptop displays are not as good or as large a gamut as a desktop display.

My second problem is everything! my vray frame buffer looks slightly different to my 3ds frame buffer (loss of contrast and colour) and then photoshop looks completely different as well. To top it all off when i upload to my website it can look different again! its a bit of a nightmare if im honest.

If you have the sRGB button enabled in the V-Ray framebuffer it will not look the same as the 3ds Max viewport. The 3ds Max viewport is not color managed and uses the display's color space. To my knowledge the V-Ray viewport is not fully color managed either as it does not read the display profile so its sRGB button is limited in what it can do.

I know it may be way to much to ask but all i want is for me to view my renders as they are on the vray frame buffer in photoshop, firefox and on my laptop considering i have calibrated both. In photoshop should i be setting my color profile to the profile that my calibrator created. I just read that you should keep it as srgb. Sorry to proberly rehash a lot of answered questions but there is nothing more frustrating than seeing your work as you like it in the vray frame buffer but no where else!

You're never going to get a perfect match between the V-Ray frame buffer and Photoshop because V-Ray's frame buffer is not fully color managed like Photoshop. There is a trick I've come up with that helps get around this, but it required that your display has been recently calibrated.

1) Calibrate your display every 2-3 weeks
2) When you open your image in Photoshop ASSIGN the display profile
3) CONVERT to your working space (sRGB or AdobeRGB) depending upon the color space of your display and your final destination for most files

Normally you would NEVER assign a display profile to anything and certainly never save a file with a display profile assigned, however in this rare case it works as long as your display profile is up to date AND you immediately convert to your working space. The above works as it assumes that the image was created in the same color space as the display because only Lightwave to my knowledge is color managed. No other 3d apps are.

Firefox is also by default not color managed and will use the monitor's color space, however there are color management plugins for Firefox that will allow you to select your display profile.

As far as which working space to use, as I mentioned it really depends on the gamut of your display and how you intend to use your image, but sRGB works ok for simple workflows, but limits what you can do with an image on Inkjet printers and wide gamut displays, offset printing etc.



if anyone could help i would be forever in your debt. P.s i use a dell lcd screen.

[mark runza]

Jeff you have to be the most helpful man alive! so on my understanding.

-render my image as usual using vray
-open with photoshop
-when it asks if i should assign a profile to it as it doesnt have one, i choose my monitors profile
i then straight away go to edit - color - convert to profile and most probably convert it to srgb as i wont be printing the work, (will be for web)
-i then edit the work as normal (colors , curves and such)
-save as a tiff or jpeg and finished?

when i do open it with photoshop and apply the display profile, is that then the correct true colors of the image. is photoshop the only application i can trust out of firefox, windows picture viewer and 3ds max?

After i did everything listed, the picture still has a very different tone on the internet than the photoshop image.
Colors.jpg

my goal is to open in photoshop, correct the image in what ever way i need to, then save the file as srgb and for it to look like that image across platforms. At the moment i cant really make changes in photoshop as the image looks completely different once i have uploaded it to the web. im not sure if im just not getting it but its driving me crazy

[Jeff Mottle]

Jeff you have to be the most helpful man alive! so on my understanding.

-render my image as usual using vray
-open with photoshop
-when it asks if i should assign a profile to it as it doesnt have one, i choose my monitors profile
i then straight away go to edit - color - convert to profile and most probably convert it to srgb as i wont be printing the work, (will be for web)
-i then edit the work as normal (colors , curves and such)
-save as a tiff or jpeg and finished?

Correct, and when you save, make sure to check the box including your working space profile so that if you pass the image onto anyone else who is using a color managed environment, they see the same colors.

when i do open it with photoshop and apply the display profile, is that then the correct true colors of the image. is photoshop the only application i can trust out of firefox, windows picture viewer and 3ds max?

This will get you as close as match as possible to what you saw in the V-Ray framebuffer, but depending upon the colors in the scene might not be 100%, but it's as close as you can get. Also you must make sure that your display profile is up to date otherwise the colors could be altered to be inaccurate. Assining a display profile likes this assumes the profile is representative of the characteristics of the display at the time you assign the profile. This technique is not used in any color managed workflow you will find and is a "hack" for CG people.

After i did everything listed, the picture still has a very different tone on the internet than the photoshop image.

Yes, it's not perfect because once you CONVERT to the sRGB working space the color space of display and that of the image are no longer exactly the same. If you do not have a wide gamut display (which is what I am assuming), then your display should be "close" in gamut to the sRGB colorspace, but it's very unlikely it's identical. It's likely slightly larger. Some better displays also have an sRGB mode on them, so if you set the display to that mode, and then recalibrate and profile it should be a much closer match. This is becuase the display clips then internally clips the gamut to match sRGB. Right now I am assuming that your display has a gamut slightly larger than sRGB which is why your image in FF looks slightly more saturated.

If you send me your display ICC profile, I'll open it in one of my gamut visualization apps and show you how it compares to the sRGB color space. If you send me the image as is from that project I can map it into the spaces as well.


my goal is to open in photoshop, correct the image in what ever way i need to, then save the file as srgb and for it to look like that image across platforms. At the moment i cant really make changes in photoshop as the image looks completely different once i have uploaded it to the web. im not sure if im just not getting it but its driving me crazy

[mark runza]

hi Jeff, that would be amazing. How can i send you the profile and picture. i tried using the attatchment option on the reply but it wouldnt work.
Shall I send it in an email?