Mobile Workstation

[bradccc]

Hi,

I want a laptop that edit and render large files(in 3dsMAX,Rhinoceros, AutoCAD). I dont want buy 5000$ nvidia quadro laptops because gtx and firepro series have same gear also cheap. What should i buy? Thanks anyway

[Dimitris Tolios]

Asus G75v is perhaps the best value for money high-end gaming laptop that offers a lot of potential to grow as a 3D modelling workstation.

 

Fast 3rd gen Ivy i7 (top models turboboost to 3.6GHz which is insanely close to desktop performance a couple of years ago), 4x Dimm slots (only up to 16GB of Ram tho), 2x 2.5" HDD slots (for both SSD + HDD or any desired combination) and powerful GPUs to boot driving a decent 1080p screen.

 

GPU wise you get 2x main variations:

The GTX 670M which is basically a re-badged, older, power hungry yet mid-range desktop GTX fast Fermi card - one of the fastest cards available for any laptop in the sub $2000 range.

 

And the GTX 660M which is a true 6th generation, Kepler based GTX. Slower than the 670M, yet with better battery life and less generated heat...unless really pushed by price and/or availability, I would go for the 670m version

 

G75v with the 670M 3GB Vram, 12GB Ram (doubt you will need the 16), 500GB HDD and a more than adequate i7-3710 (2.3GHz-3.3turbo) is around $1400-1450. Definitely not cheap, but a good value for the offered performance and upgrade potential: you can throw in a hybrid momentus XT 750 or pair the existing HDD with a 256 SSD (or smaller, tho seen m4 256GB for $180 on more than one occasions lately and it's a good value, Samsung 830s are also getting much cheaper than the $300+ that was less than 3 months ago), and you will have a pretty decent workstation - not that it is not good enough out of the box.

 

The 670M is not a must have by any stretch, but it does offer an impressive 3-4x performance boost over most dedicated GPUs you will usually find in laptops in the sub $1200 range...it might actually do even VRay RT for simpler scenes, and will provide the best performance possible before investing into a high end mobile quadro card - yes, those that cost to vendors about $2000 for the card alone, and are out of the question for the most of us. It surely beats the hell out of many out-dated desktop cards (quadro and geforce alike).

Edited June 20, 2012 by dtolios

[bradccc]

Thanks Dimitrios for information also i just see new 680m in nvidia's site but any laptops dont have this. i think i will wait 680m laptop cause specs are 2-3 times to 675m.

check this out:

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/notebook-gpus/geforce-gtx-680m/specifications

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/notebook-gpus/geforce-gtx-675m/specifications

 

what do you think? should i wait 680m laptop?

[Dimitris Tolios]

Thanks Dimitrios for information also i just see new 680m in nvidia's site but any laptops dont have this. i think i will wait 680m laptop cause specs are 2-3 times to 675m.

check this out:

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/notebook-gpus/geforce-gtx-680m/specifications

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/notebook-gpus/geforce-gtx-675m/specifications

 

what do you think? should i wait 680m laptop?

 

The 680M will be the successor to the 67xM series. It will not be 3 times faster - it just has way more CUDA cores as the new Kepler Architecture is utilizing large clusters of multiple "simpler" shader cores instead of the smaller clusters of complex CUDA cores the Fermi generation was using.

This is not necessarily faster: the 660M which is a cut down version (way fewer CUDA cores and slower chip/RAM) which is Kepler based, still has more CUDA cores than the 670M (Fermi), but it is nowhere as fast.

 

The story is mirrored in the desktop cards, where the new Keplers (GTX 670 & 680) are much faster (by no mean 2 fold tho) than the GTX 580 for equal or best image quality - in Games.

 

In computational tasks (OpenCL or CUDA accelerated) the 680 and 670 barely catch up: most programs (VRay RT GPU included) do not have been optimized yet for the Kepler computation pipeline, while the Fermi logic has been toyed with for almost 2 years.

 

I don't know if and when the 680M will be available from nVidia, and when manufacturers will make it available for consumers in a affordable hi-end laptop: The G75v launched a couple of months ago, and probably Asus / MSI / Acer (or other manufacturers that give us well-valued gaming laptops in the $1500 range) will wait for the next generation (2013 models) of their production line to implement a card that looks it won't be readily available before Q3 2012. Clevo and its siblings build most PCs shipped to order, so they might do it sooner.

 

I doubt Asus will update the G75v chassis with this card, and if it will I also doubt it will be available in models in the $1500 or below range. You will probably find it in the top of the line Alienware and ofc the Clevo family, but we are talking 2x+ the cost (the ones you've already seen I guess and freaked out with their pricetags).

 

It makes sense: the 670M is based around what you would say is roughly a GTX 560Ti (a card that sells around $200 or $240 for 2GB versions), while the 680M will be a mobile version of the GTX 670 (a card that production still struggles to make widely available and is constantly back-ordered despite the $400 cost for the 2GB version). I bet nVidia will ask serious money for the chip, and manufacturers will want to have a profit margin ontop. The good news is that the Kepler chips are much cooler running, so the cut-down desktop (top of the line mobile) Fermi ones actually are pretty close to a fully fledged desktop TDP rated Kepler. Aka, the cooling systems designed for the former, will work with the latter, so we can have much better performance for a similar sized machine, so transplanting a 680M in a 670M oriented machine is probably only financially limited and not mechanically prohibited.

Edited June 21, 2012 by dtolios

[michaelcontreras]

i see that u dimitri always recomend the asus g75v, well i fond some good laptops that i think are good too so can u help me to choose?

like in this two :

 

http://www.xoticpc.com/asus-g75vwds733d-p-4324.html?wconfigure=yes

(ur prefered) with 3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3820QM (2.7GHz - 3.7GHz, 8MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP),

COPPER COOLING UPGRADE - Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (XPC Service),

32GB DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (4x8GB SODIMMS),

one hard drive of 750

6X Blu-Ray Writer/Reader + 8X DVDRW/CDRW Super Multi Combo Drive

all that will be: 2873$

 

or

 

http://www.xoticpc.com/msi-gt70-0nd219us-p-4499.html?wconfigure=yes

with the same, the only difference would be a nVidia GeForce GTX 675M 4,096MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 with Optimus™ Technology

and will be 2747$

 

please help me choose!! than you so much.

 

Bhavatu sabba mangalam

[Dimitris Tolios]

My only logic behind recomending the G75V is that you can get it starting @ $1200 with a 660M 2GB, and by the time you spend $1500 on it it gets a 670M 3GB - while retaining i7 3rd gen (true, not the top of the line models, yet 95% or more as fast), matte 1080p screen, 4x Dimm slots, 2x 2.5" HDD bays, kinda pretty (but big and heavy) + backlit keyboard.

 

You can find equivalent models from many manufacturers, but other than MSI most of them are overpriced in comparison when equally configured.

Clevo/Sager, Alienware, Boxx and others offer more powerful mobile workstations, but you lose that "sweet spot" for them being $1500 or less.

 

By customizing the G75V or MSI GT70, you are bumping the price up - in many ways for no reason what-so-ever: 4x dimm slots make it dirt easy and cheap to upgrade it to 32GB yourself - yet they charge you $300 for it, when a 2x8GB DDR3 1600 so-dimm pair with heatsinks (uneeded) are $99. You might as-well get a factory configured 2x8GB and upgrade it yourself if you need to (probably you won't).

 

SSD or Momentus XT HDD upgrades are also overpriced, while the cooler upgrade is almost weird to suggest on one of the coolest running laptops out there...

 

I would say a G75VW-DS72 that is $1950 in amazon (USA), with 16GB RAM, 670M, 256SSD + 750GB 7200 HDD is a good base - better than the one you have configured @ $2870. 300GHz less on the CPU, but SSD will lead to much better overall response, lacking some 5% only when rendering...

 

G75VW-RS72 is @ $1520, same as above but with just the 750GB HDD...with $200-220 you can add the SSD of your preference: I would go Samsung 830 256> Crucial m4 256 - ppl like the Vertex 4 too, but if you fill it up more than 50% performance drops by far below the competition, so no-go for me - I buy 256 to use 256 - or so. Downside is that it comes with 4x4GB RAM configuration, but that's not a big deal: you don't have to go 32GB - 24GB is still an option if you want and I doubt you will be using more than 16GB anyways. Few do. Even going all-out for 32GB configuration, you are @ $1950 give or take, almost $1000 lower than the xoticpc tuned model, and still faster for most stuff. You get to keep the 4x4GB dimms too, and sell or gift to your friends - something XPC would keep for themselves (thus they technically charge you almost $420 for those 32GB of RAM).

 

I understand that some people are not dealing with money as most of us do, and that's good for them, but we all should spend trying to get our money's worth back - something labels most of the times cannot ensure.

Edited August 28, 2012 by dtolios

[michaelcontreras]

wow man you are great, thank you for such a great response, i think i will go with the asus g75 in lower price with the spaces for upgrading things like every year, with that i also stay entertained in the future, and im also in the side of thiking that the asus is much aesthetic, the only things that may me daubt are details like the 3.0 usb ports, the reboost bottom and all that, but u are absolutely right and i will go with the real good and correct in money terms talking. thank you so much

 

Bhavathu sabba mangalam

[michaelcontreras]

but! i still dont understand how the 3072MB nVIDIA DDR5 GTX 670M of the asus can be better than the 4096MB DDR5 nVIDIA GTX 675M w/ Optimus of the msi i will use this computer for vectorworks, autocad, sketchup, maya, 3dmax, rheno, etc and i want this laptop to spend at least 4 to 5 years till i a graduate and more! i dont mind to spend a little bit more of money for something that will woth it thank you so much

[Dimitris Tolios]

Did not claim it will be better...still either will work.

If a 675M card laptop is within your wallet's reach, go for it. Don't really know how much better one from the other is in real life.

 

Be careful with the 5 year placebo...afaik the day after you buy it a co-student can knock it down off you desk and destroy it, the GPU might burn out the day after your warranty runs out etc. Spending three years in the same spaces with 500 arch students have seen it all, thus I've chose to work with Acers and not fancy stuff. I could technically buy a new one every year for the price of a single one of the slower and equally susceptible to "mayhem" MBPs 50% of my colleagues in M.Arch got. Out of the dozen of ppl that were using MBPs in my program and I was keeping touch with (from different years), maybe one of them did not upgrade to a newer MBP over the course of 3 years. Ofc none of them would accept that their $2500+ 15" C2D / 4GB / 512MB nvidia MBP was way to overpriced in 2009, when I got an i7-720 8GB (2/4 dimms full, 1/2 HDD slot full)+ 1GB 57xx for $800+ tax.

...yet this is california, so it is actually recommended by the Grad program's adviser for us to get a MBP and dual boot XP 32bit. Good luck.

 

Don't put all your eggs in one basket, don't overpay for something that you are not prepared to replace.

I strongly believe that you can do nearly whatever you want with virtually no compromises using the cheapest 1080p i7 (even 2g) with dedicated GPU, other than gaming on new tittles and GPU rendering - which again I don't know if you will be using. Still you can buy a higher end machine to make you happy and more confident running more stuff. Doing so is not an end in itself tho.

Edited August 29, 2012 by dtolios

[michaelcontreras]

ok here it is my almost final question xD hahahaha im really deciding here and i want to obtain the best for my money, so... what card is better for me? working in cad as vectorworks, in renders with 3dmax, maya etc the AMD Radeon HD 7970M (2048MB) GDDR5 DX11 or the nVidia GeForce GTX 675M 4,096MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 with Optimus™ Technology?

 

and thenk you for yar response

[anwarhakim]

Yes G75 is the best VFM .

Get it ASAP . one of my collegue will be getting it this week . same specs with 256SSD , Ivy bridge 3rd generation , 670M 3gb , 12gb ram i think .

 

Really good buy

[Dimitris Tolios]

In the thread "GTX 675m vs AMD 7970M" there is the same debate.

 

7970M is a better OpenGL card.

I don't know if it is a better OpenCL card - probably is.

Doesn't Render in VRay RT yet...

Doesn't support Cuda.

Don't know how well and if it transitions to the build-in GPU as good as Optimus - aka I don't know if it will have a tad better/worse battery life - in both cases the latter will be bad, just like with all poweful GPU laptops.

 

675M has more RAM that unless you are using current games with mods or GPU render larger scenes you will probably never utilize, has optimus and works with more GPU accelerated stuff atm.

[kevinnn]

With "Asus g75vw-ds72" can i work and render in 3ds max around 14m-18m polygon range? What do you think?

#summon Dimitris Tolios