braddewald Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 The title says it all. I'm in the middle of a huge workload right now and can't afford much downtime so I'm wondering if it's stable enough to make the jump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Beaulieu Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Yes. Our office has beta tested this for months and are in the middle of rolling it out now. We often have upwards of 40+ projects going on at once and could not afford the down time either. I would say as a fail safe, don't delete 2014 or Vray whatever you use now, but all seems good to go for us. We did have to comb through our scripts and make adjustments to get them working for 2015 though; watch out for that of you are a heavy script user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braddewald Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 I am indeed a heavy script user but not knowledgeable enough in scripting to fix them myself. Is 2015 that different that it will break most scripts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Beaulieu Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I'm no the guy to ask, unfortunately. We have a Vinnie for that. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Wienerroither Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I am indeed a heavy script user but not knowledgeable enough in scripting to fix them myself. Is 2015 that different that it will break most scripts? I can't see a reason for that - not too many changes happened on that regard ( many extension of MXS exposure happened, but no fundamental removals of existing things ). The biggest change might be the switch from old layer manager to the new layermanager. The old layer manager is gone and can't even be revived via maxscript. But the scripting interface should work the same ( at least after SP1 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 To be honest, if you want to be on the safest side, then 3dsMax2014 + Vray3. There seems to very little to gain from 2015 and I don't even know if everyone bothered yet to recompile plugins, which lost compatibility. Vray 3 seems to be on the good side of fence by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I dunno, I am looking forward to using the new chamfers; they look great and I've waited a long time for those bad boys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I've thought they had simply bought Mariusz's plugin, but didn't it seems. From sample observation, it seems to be rather less complete and slightly buggy (shading corner issue) compared to it. But the layer management and so are nice. It's just, he asked if it's completely safe, and it seems there are still rather issues there, from small tidbits like this, to new weird viewport manipulation, non-compiled plugins,etc. Vray3 had them too but it already went through quite few revisions, which can't be said for Max with its rigid, non-frequent updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Beaulieu Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Post roll-out: Vray 3.0 is great and totally stable. All changes seem very useful and generally lead novice users down the right path in rendering. I like the new toolbar and there are a ton of new maps and material types that I look forward to playing with. Max 2015 is indeed a waste of time. I see no improvements and several degradations, however, I would not consider any of them as fatal to a workflow. - Auto-crossing seems to no longer work appropriately when using the Nitrous Driver and Legacy seems to no longer handle any sort of speed in large scenes. - The layer manager could not be a larger pile of sh*t as it removed all of the quick buttons from the previous versions and has been streamlined for the Scene Explorer. The Scene Explorer, if you hadn't used used before, is not at all useful for large scenes. Gone seem to be the days of select by layer and no more easy transfers between layers. There are a lot of changes here, but they are all useless wastes of time. I have never hated any change so much as this new layer manager. Crap. Total crap. - Other advancements in 2015 are so-so. If they are something you use then great, but if you do not, then an upgrade would not be worth it. In short and because I haven't vented my frustrations enough: Vray Great. 2015 Layer Manager = a bigger disappointment than the 2014 Red Sox. Worthless, worthless, worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Johnson Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I wouldn't consider the new scene explorer a waste of time. I was the one who did UI improvements for the scene explorer, to update it's look and feel. I also was the one who took out that old nasty beast, the old layer manager. And hardly ever did work bring me such pleasure as ripping out that old piece of crap where the business logic was all mixed together with the UI logic. The layer code now follows a real MVC pattern, which makes it very extensible. The new layer explorer allows you to group layers. The API was changed to so any layer can be a parent to any other layer. Which allows you to group layers arbitrarily. However I was not the only one who worked on it. It was a group effort, so I was not responsible for what actions were added or removed. So if you have complaints about that, talk to support, or script up a work around. But I'll tell you another thing. There used to be a performance bug that would occur when creating thousands of layers. It used to take about 35 minutes to create 1000 layers. I fixed that bug. Now it takes a few seconds. That bug would probably also occur when loading a file with thousands of layers in it. I fixed it on my last day at Autodesk, putting in a lot of overtime to do it. That was the day before they laid off a bunch of devs (myself included with zero explanation) and almost the entire docs team. I know of only one person there now who is willing to put in the extra time to fix those old bugs anymore. Max was fun to work during those 9 years, but it's now so old. I would never go back to it: I've lost all faith in the management there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Penaloza Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hello Chris, sad to heard about the Lay off, hopefully you are better environment now, I talked with other ex developers at AD and they all said the same, lots of frustration with management, and if they keep moving people around or not putting value in long time developers the software with go down and die. I am exited about the new Layer management fixes, I have not tried yet, because we also use lots of scripts and plugins that are not updated yet for 2015, but hopefully we can do the move soon. I am surprised that Corey have such bad experience with it. Kind of make me worried that it will be the same, but after reading what you post make me keep my hopes There is this horrible bug between Max and Backburner that sometimes still render layer that are turned off on XREF scenes. Hopefully that is fixed. BTW someone here still using VRay 2.x with Max 2015? I don't see any updated link to download at Chaosgroup website, it is compatible or you have to upgrade to VRay 3? Thanks and best luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Beaulieu Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Sorry Chris, but I would have to consider the new Scene Explorer as an upgrade to the Layer Manager worthless. Your time and effort aside, there was already a Scene Explorer. You upgraded that. The Layer Manager worked for a different purpose and is not at all wholly replaced by Scene Explorer so users are left without functionality. You may not have made the call on any of it, but you cannot honestly tell me that the new Manager is the best option for all users. -The Scene Explorer no longer alphabetizes Hyphens and Underscores so I can arrange my files in a clean fashion. -I cannot select by layer. I have to open the layer and highlight every single object on that layer in order to select it. Or I could create a selection group. But guess what? If I make a selection group for every object in my scene, then I have no need for layers at all! -Transferring from one layer to another is done by finding the objects and either dragging them to another layer or by "selecting new parent". What exactly was wrong with Add to Current Layer? -I have thousands of objects, not layers. If you are creating scenes with thousands of layers then you are overly organized to a point where you are no longer organized. You have made it harder to get to the objects that I need and forced me to create more work to do what I was doing without issue before. -Woo-woo for nested layers, but how is that an even trade off? Scripting may be an answer, but so is not buying 2015. Save money and have an easier time completing the work that makes me money vs. Spend money, add frustration to my daily life, and not get what I need from the software...... Which do you think I will choose? Re: the issue of apples and oranges, a banana is not the solution. Sorry. Not a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Penaloza Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Oh brother, I think I will put the upgrade in the backburner I have a big animation coming and I don't want to deal with all those problems... that I don't have now. Thanks Corey for the complain/review if you have more, just let us know so we can do an informed upgrade. Fco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejan Sparovec Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Corey, I've already reported the Layer explorer issue in the "small annoying things" max feedback section. http://3dsmaxfeedback.autodesk.com/forums/76763-small-annoying-things/suggestions/5856673-the-new-layer-explorer-2015-should-have-the-old Really disappointing. I get cad files from architects with tons of objects in different layers and the new layers workflow is not just annoying, it's impossible without using the Layer toolbar which has the old buttons in it. Glad you didn't take that one out as well, Chris... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Sorry Chris, but I would have to consider the new Scene Explorer as an upgrade to the Layer Manager worthless. Your time and effort aside, there was already a Scene Explorer. You upgraded that. The Layer Manager worked for a different purpose and is not at all wholly replaced by Scene Explorer so users are left without functionality. You may not have made the call on any of it, but you cannot honestly tell me that the new Manager is the best option for all users. -The Scene Explorer no longer alphabetizes Hyphens and Underscores so I can arrange my files in a clean fashion. -I cannot select by layer. I have to open the layer and highlight every single object on that layer in order to select it. Or I could create a selection group. But guess what? If I make a selection group for every object in my scene, then I have no need for layers at all! -Transferring from one layer to another is done by finding the objects and either dragging them to another layer or by "selecting new parent". What exactly was wrong with Add to Current Layer? -I have thousands of objects, not layers. If you are creating scenes with thousands of layers then you are overly organized to a point where you are no longer organized. You have made it harder to get to the objects that I need and forced me to create more work to do what I was doing without issue before. -Woo-woo for nested layers, but how is that an even trade off? Scripting may be an answer, but so is not buying 2015. Save money and have an easier time completing the work that makes me money vs. Spend money, add frustration to my daily life, and not get what I need from the software...... Which do you think I will choose? Re: the issue of apples and oranges, a banana is not the solution. Sorry. Not a fan. So much agree here on all points. I do not own 2015 and don't know, maybe don't even plan but from the look of it the scene explorer just doesn't sort huge scenes (with 1000s of objects) the way layer manager does. I didn't use layer manager to quickly select one or few objects, but to manipulate big groups and sets of objects. Coming from AutoCad in school, the layer manager was logical to me and explorer just isn't. It seems different in nature and purpose and it's weird they can't coexist. Simple upgrade to allow nesting in layer manager would solve every problem I ever had with it. 1000 layers ? Who uses 1000 layers :- O ? I get lost past 20, that's about as much as is usable after which the whole scene organization totally deteroriates. Scripting a feature because the one there doesn't work like should for its purpose is strange advice too. From salespoint it would be sort of rude too.. Otherwise, I love Max, and might way just for 2016. Although the new added content released today is impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejan Sparovec Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Now there is no interaction between actual objects in the viewport and the layer explorer, which is just wrong and not dealing with how things work from an artist's perspective, rather from a programmer's perspective. And by the way, people are reporting problems with shortcuts not working while using the scene explorer: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=6&t=1209722 In the end I still agree with Juraj, Max is still great and the open subdiv addition is a game changer, it makes things so much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I was looking forward to using nested layers too... Surely the functionality can't have been stripped that much? I have never used layers in any kind of advanced fashion as it is though, perhaps that's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Beaulieu Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I just want to hop back on and reiterate what apiece of crap this new "Layer Manager" is. I've never hated anything so much. It is the most poorly thought out and poor functioning thing ever incorporated into Max. As a quick tip: When the Layer Manager breaks or just seems to have more bugs than usual (which has become daily for me) Go to Tool>Manage Scene Explorer> and delete the profiles saved into the menu that pops up. When you open the new layer manager, a new profile will be created and things should begin to function as they were designed. Which is to say poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 It's absolutely horrible unusable mess. Not only horrible, but also super slow in big (read archviz--) many small objects) scenes, where while open, any manipulation has noticeable lag/freeze. {Layer manager} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amen Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 How about using the nested layer manager (http://www.timsportfolio.co.uk/tools/nested-layer-manager-3/) and just skip the max layer manager. Has anyone tested this? I would not mind spending the extra money. Bye, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Ok, free beta. I'll give it a try. I hope it doesn't use the underlying native manager structure to sort the files and is truly independent, otherwise it would just keep nice UI on top of horrible performance issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amen Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I am interested in your findings. The layer Manger is the last thing keeping us from upgrading to 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Beaulieu Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) How does this react on a merge or xref? The Max Explorer seems to blow away the nesting when you merge in or xref a scene. Unfortunately, we do this a lot given that we work as a team and more generally working in a separate file helps keep the VP light while modeling small portions of a larger scene. Edited October 28, 2014 by CoreyMBeaulieu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinhoura Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 How about using the nested layer manager (http://www.timsportfolio.co.uk/tools/nested-layer-manager-3/) and just skip the max layer manager. Has anyone tested this? I would not mind spending the extra money. Bye, Jan I have got it, works very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Beaulieu Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 So today I discovered a workaround... It may have been what others were describing in other threads and I misunderstood, but this seems to calm my obsessive hatred.... if you right click in the dead space next to the render button... after scripts if you have custom buttons; there is an option for a menu called Layers. This is not a perfect answer, but it gives you back most of the old buttons and allows you to switch between layers and move object according to the "old" methods. This was in 2014 and likely before, but now it solves a real issue. I hope this calms you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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