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Thread: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

  1. #21
    Founder Jeff Mottle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Buckley View Post
    Also just to let you know, the Max Image viewer and the texture in Photoshop (Adobe RGB) are now pretty close in terms of colour now.

    If I then load the texture through the ICC node, it still goes really dark (see screenshot - image in PS is Adboe RGB - Image on the left in Max, is the same texture being viewed through the ICC node with Adboe RGB profile loaded) so I'm not sure I actually need that ICC node as I'm not too sure what it's doing and whether it's working properly.
    Hmm, You do have to use the VRayICC node otherwise V-Ray's color management will not know how to convert colors from it's assigned color space into the working space of the VFB. I'm leaning towards a a gamma issue somewhere.

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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyderSK View Post
    Hi Dave,

    Control panel will show you what Windows is using. Did you calibrate your HP using DreamColor Solution and created custom color space ? Or did you just adjust existing regime ?
    Good grief, I really wish manufacturers and Microsoft would stop trying to develop their own color management systems and standards. There have been standards established by the ICC for over 20 years, but they like to think they can make systems that just talk between their own hardware and software that is going to be better. Uggg. Suffice it to say, DON'T work in a custom working space and definitely NEVER assign a custom profile to an image or texture.

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    Veteran Member Dave Buckley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Ok so I calibrated using my i1Display Pro. That profile was also created by manually adjusting RGB levels to achieve the required targets, in correlation with the i1Profiler software.

    I'm assuming it is the gamma issue, so will try what Juraj has suggested and bringing in the custom textures with a gamma of 1.

    With regards the textures, they have been opened in PS, converted to Adobe RGB (as that is my standard colour space in PS), they are then edited as required and saved with the Adobe RGB profile. I wouldn't say it's redundant, the client might not appreciate the full colour spectrum of them, but at least I will when I view them

    I'm just trying to make sure I'm getting the most out of my images. The difference between sRGB and Adobe RGB seems quite drastic, so why limit the colours I can use if i don't need too? I guess I can always convert back to sRGB to see what the client sees (assuming they're not seeing the same as me already.)

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    Veteran Member RyderSK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    You don't need to create 'custom' textures, unless I understand you wrong what you meant.

    You simply assign to VrayICC the profile that you otherwise have as working space in Photoshop but also your Display. This will let you see everything aligned and correct, but that doesn't mean you have to adjust your textures anyhow.

    1)Set monitor to AdobeRGB, calibrate that regime (I presume this is what you have done and where you are right now).
    2)When creating texture, you can either omit (this is best, because your textures might get used/viewed regardless of color management setup by anyone else) color profile or assign AdobeRGB. You don't have to, because you will assign it in Vray.
    3)Load any texture in linear space, with gamma override 1.0 (or, simply using VrayHDRi loader) as base texture plugged into VrayICC node with color profile of AdobeRGB.
    4)Render without baking gamma (either 1) None, or 2)Color mapping only).
    5)Instead of clicking on sRGB button in framebuffer, dragdown and select ICC. On right panel "Color correction" scroll down to ICC tab, open and load AdobeRGB ICC.

    Done.

    Regarding your clients and how you and them see it, I find that strange choice. Unless you know they will watch it on widegamut monitor, they will see it incorrectly just so you can see it better ?
    talcikdemovicova.com

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    Veteran Member RyderSK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mottle View Post
    Good grief, I really wish manufacturers and Microsoft would stop trying to develop their own color management systems and standards. There have been standards established by the ICC for over 20 years, but they like to think they can make systems that just talk between their own hardware and software that is going to be better. Uggg. Suffice it to say, DON'T work in a custom working space and definitely NEVER assign a custom profile to an image or texture.
    Absolutely agree with this.

    But what I meant by custom profile was simply calibrating option, where you can keep your monitor default intact, and simply take over one or few custom slots. So instead of messing with factory profile of your display you can always default to, you will keep you calibrated profile as another one bellow them. It's non-destructive and more flexible. If the display UI allows it of course. And obviously I am talking hardware color calibration, not messing with software side, where I also suggest both to ignore windows settings and graphic driver settings.
    talcikdemovicova.com

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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyderSK View Post
    1)Set monitor to AdobeRGB, calibrate that regime (I presume this is what you have done and where you are right now).
    Just to be sure there is no mis-information, can you clarify what you meant here?

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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyderSK View Post
    Absolutely agree with this.

    But what I meant by custom profile was simply calibrating option, where you can keep your monitor default intact, and simply take over one or few custom slots. So instead of messing with factory profile of your display you can always default to, you will keep you calibrated profile as another one bellow them. It's non-destructive and more flexible. If the display UI allows it of course. And obviously I am talking hardware color calibration, not messing with software side, where I also suggest both to ignore windows settings and graphic driver settings.
    I've never seen this before. You have any screenshots?

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    Veteran Member RyderSK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Yes of course,moment, I guess I am really having a bit language/jargon issue.

    Here is screenshot of the feature, for example the top-range only Dells allows you to store 2 x LUT3D values: CAL1 and CAL2 but it only works with Dell Color Calibration Solution (DCCS), and DCCS only works with i1DisplayPro.
    CAL1 and CAL2 are just "User slots" for storing LUT3D calibrations so I don't need to adjust the factory sRGB/AdobeRGB profiles you see above.

    I presume most brand offer similar feature nowadays, including HP, which is why I asked him if he calibrated it using the Dream color suite.

    Sorry about the confusing writing, I lack your knowledge about subject overall so I am only trying to write A-to-Z tutorial solution.


    WP_20141030_19_02_54_Pro__highres.jpg
    Last edited by RyderSK; October 30th, 2014 at 11:11 AM.
    talcikdemovicova.com

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    Veteran Member Dave Buckley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    The monitor does have options like that. It was originally set to 'native' i then changed to adobe rgb. From there i plugged in the idisplay and followed the on screen instructions (manually setting rgb and luminance values) to achieve the specified target.

    I then let the iprofiler software run its course and at the end i saved the profile.

    The monitor is now using that profile that was saved. If i go back to the monitor menu again, the colour profile option is now set to 'user'.

    With regards to the custom textures all i meant was when i tweak and adjust the likes of arroway or cg textures to create my own textures. I was simply opening them, converting to adobe rgb, making my adjustments, then saving them again.

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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Ahh ok, now I understand. Yes my NEC PA301W has the same thing. On board LUT storage is still pretty new and generally reserved for only the highest end displays. I generally use the display's native capabilities and calibrate from there. Even though the display won't have 100% aRGB coverage, they usually have a gamut outside of the aRGB colorspace that you will clamp when you calibrate from the aRGB preset. That having been said, I could see some benefit in doing this as non color managed apps will now at least be in a known device independent color space (aRGB), rather than the monitor's color space. And the loss of color is likely to be minimal. There could possibly be some shift still, but depends on the colors. If you send me your ICC profile I can post a 3D visualization of it for you.

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