Larissa Holderness Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Right now I am using Lumion for an architectural animation. However, I am having a hard time with the cinematography for it. Are there books, videos ... anything ... that would help with this topic? Thank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jeff Mottle Posted October 10, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 10, 2016 Sorry I missed this post! I have been travelling the last three weeks. I wish more questions like this were asked on our forums! Going to loop some friends into this thread to get you some good answers. The obvious Amazon ratings are a great place to start, but I'll get you some answers from those who do this on a regular basis...stay tuned Thanks again for the awesome question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larissa Holderness Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 Not a problem! Thank you for your response! Looking forward to seeing what others share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldoguadarrama Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Hi Larissa, what are you looking for? I mean what is your focus point? lighting, camera direction, storytelling, composition or maybe a little bit of all these topics, btw recently I read a nice book, small but very helpful about storytelling, I think this is the main topic you should start because after this you can choose your way, the name of the book is "Animated storytelling" from Liz Blazer, let me know if I can help you with something more specific. *Not sure if lumion is the best way to get a good work, I saw some stuff with and is getting better, I guess with a lot of post you can get cool results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migueldeguzman Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Hi Larissa, I learned a lot of cinematography from the site nofilmschool.com, they have awesome lessons and articles. Also vimeo school (https://vimeo.com/blog/category/video-school) is a nice place to start. There are also youtube channels as Film in the making (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQMtzuWPAnQxlbRxeoT0ipA) with good video essays. I would try to learn cinematography from films, commercials,videoclips... and then try to apply the lesson to animation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikosnikolopoulos Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Hi Larissa, That's a very interesting question Cinematographers are the painters of light and they are in charge of framing, lighting, colour and tone, it's an exciting world that I always look for inspiration. Aldo is right, tell us your focus point and we can suggest the right book to read or some great cinematographers to follow. Here is my VIP list: Roger Deakins Emmanuel Lubezki Robert Richardson Great source for inspiration: http://screenmusings.org/ And some notes that might help you in your research and work. I'm happy to explain further, I always write things and make daily notes to remind myself the process of image making. Cinematography ● Place and block light to express space and define form ● Treating your virtual space as a stage or film set (certain natural limitations have to be respected) Inspiration & Research ● Find stuff that is beautiful. Save it. Analyse it. WHY does it work?? ● Research artists, photographers/ cinematographers. How do they achieve their results? ● Get some life experience (with a sketchbook, camera, phone and your own eyes) ● Always analysing everything. Understanding how light works. Growing your memory palette ● Watch films and follow great cinematographers ● Read books on the cinematic lighting processes Experiment and Critique ● Visual judgement is key Moodboard & Reference Imagery ● Find your story through your precedent images ● Define by purpose (narrative moodboard, light moodboard, fashion styling) ● What are you looking for? Be specific and label your reference images Colour through light ● Colour composition using lights ● Emotive import Tonal hierarchy ● Brightest light is the most important ● The space/ visual needs a hierarchy, from strongest/ most contrast to weakest/ least contrasting ● The artist must decide the hierarchy (i.e. don’t allow a hierarchy to happen by accident) Looking forward hearing from you soon. All the best, Nikos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jeff Mottle Posted October 12, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 12, 2016 Thanks Aldo, Miguel and Nikos! Because they are too humble to link to their own work, let me do it for them. All of them very accomplished in their own right to be able to speak about this. Hope their comments help. Aldo Garcia - http://www.aldogarcia.mx Miguel deGuzman - http://imagensubliminal.com Nikos Nikolopoulos - http://www.creativelighting.co Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Nikos' Creative lighting was one I was going to link to as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larissa Holderness Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Now that work has died down a bit, I can respond! Thank you everyone for your help. Back story (a bit long): The animation I was working on in Lumion was for a small space - redesign of one building on a college campus. The camera path started outside the building in a common walking area and set the location of the building - relative to the rest of the campus (just the two buildings around the redesigned building). Then, the camera went up to front of the building and panned right down the length of the building to the front entrance. That part was easy. Once that sequence was finished, I had to enter the building through the front entrance and go up a staircase that had 1 landing that then angled to the left 90 degrees. Trying to get this 'walk through' to be smooth and understandable was a bit challenging. Wasn't sure how to set up the shot so that the viewer knew where they were in relation to the entrance without having to literally walk up the stairs - I find that sort of thing to be rather cheesy and architects can do that on their own easily. Once upstairs, I had to make the viewer dizzy and do another left turn straight into another left turn since the corridor the architect wanted to travel down was immediately left of the staircase. No one wants to make the viewer sick. After the viewer traveled down the corridor, the client and architect wanted to 'teleport' back downstairs into another area. How would the viewer know this is a new area that is downstairs without ... going literally down the stairs again? Then ... fade to black. Scene. I am looking for a bit of everything. Lighting, camera direction, storytelling, and composition. All of these are very important ingredients when making the cake that is an animated architectural visualization. Obviously the best lighting, and materials don't mean anything if the viewer is sick to their stomach from camera movement. I want the visualization to give the viewer a good feeling ... and not just be about some technical stuff. The viewer should relate to the animation in some way. Not sure how to go about doing that. Watched your film "The Church on the Water", Aldo. Beautiful. It drew me in. And I am sorry for your loss of your brother. Your film is exactly the type of animation I want to produce in my visualizations (both still and animated). Nikos - I love the mood that your work has. It isn't just an image, it is pulling the viewer in and making them want to watch - even with a still image. Miguel - The way you compose your photos is spectacular! And the lighting and colors are rich and vibrant. The portfolio video you have is amazing as well. Love the use of entourage and camera movement. Currently, I am the only one in the Los Angeles office making visualizations. So, everything is on my plate and at a rapid pace. I need to be in charge of everything visualization. As for using Lumion .... yeah. It is HORRIBLE. Not my first choice that's for sure. I think it is primitive and doesn't create the results that the architects are really after. However, we don't have a render farm. Trying to get the higher ups to let me use 3D Max and the cloud to render. Which is a slow process. Really want to show them what they could have if they approve the farm. We shall see. Basically, I am looking for everything! Each piece is important and all the input I can get - in any form, will help! Thanks again. Any questions, please ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) As for using Lumion .... yeah. It is HORRIBLE. Not my first choice that's for sure. I think it is primitive and doesn't create the results that the architects are really after. However, we don't have a render farm. Trying to get the higher ups to let me use 3D Max and the cloud to render. Which is a slow process. Really want to show them what they could have if they approve the farm. We shall see. Have you considered Unreal Engine for animations? The software is free and you don't need a farm to render out movies, although it helps. Unreal has some limitations but not nearly as costly as Max/Vray for animations. I'm in LA if you want to chat. Edited October 14, 2016 by innerdream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larissa Holderness Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Robert - I would LOVE to use UDK for animations. I've been trying to push it however, the main viz guy won't have it. Says the process is too troublesome and takes too long - baking textures and whatnot. Which is somewhat true. The projects here tend to evolve while we are doing the renders. Living models I suppose - architects are constantly making changes to the geometry. And, it is hard to get a final model from them. I would like to actually talk to someone about how to get things into UDK easily. I tried a while back and had limited success. However, I see that things may be easier now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Robert - I would LOVE to use UDK for animations. I've been trying to push it however, the main viz guy won't have it. Says the process is too troublesome and takes too long - baking textures and whatnot. Which is somewhat true. The projects here tend to evolve while we are doing the renders. Living models I suppose - architects are constantly making changes to the geometry. And, it is hard to get a final model from them. I would like to actually talk to someone about how to get things into UDK easily. I tried a while back and had limited success. However, I see that things may be easier now. No, it's not easier! You still have to have good UV's/ lightmaps and well thought out models. I know some are using a script for 3DS called steamroller to make lightmaps quickly and mostly it provides usable results. Yeah, if the project is in the design phase then UE4 would not be a good choice imo. You actually don't bake textures just lightmaps then you texture with nodes within UE4. All that said once your model has baked lightmaps you can change textures without re-baking and animations from there are a breeze, just set up cameras and paths, export as a sequence and compile into a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larissa Holderness Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hmmm. Someday then. I still want to try out UDK on my own and see what results I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Here's a animation I made and I'm not a power user! So, I'm sure you can do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UGe4qjF4mM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 No, it's not easier! You still have to have good UV's/ lightmaps and well thought out models. I know some are using a script for 3DS called steamroller to make lightmaps quickly and mostly it provides usable results. Yeah, if the project is in the design phase then UE4 would not be a good choice imo. You actually don't bake textures just lightmaps then you texture with nodes within UE4. All that said once your model has baked lightmaps you can change textures without re-baking and animations from there are a breeze, just set up cameras and paths, export as a sequence and compile into a movie. Good in theory, bad in real-world production. There are way too many factors going into production that makes UE4 a less viable choice. Unless your project is the 3/4's empty singe room apartments, then sure UE4 is the way to go and it seems easy. Lumion works because it takes away all of the time consuming tasks associated with UE4, works well with Revit, and a few other big ticket items. Sure, it's not the best quality, but it is the best in speed from 3rd party app like SketchUp or Revit (where you have no control over the modeling) into Lumion. Speed wins out 101% of the time over quality in production. Back on topic. Have you seen this website? http://www.iamag.co/features/the-art-of-composition-140-iconic-shots/ I would check in on the twitter feed of the person who sets these up, https://twitter.com/comp_cam/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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