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Thread: Things are changing

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    Moderator Maxer's Avatar
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    Default Things are changing

    Over the years I've seen countless threads about the one button render option and the reaction to those threads is usually the same, most people would say it's either a long way off or it won't never happen. I was one of those people who believed that my position as the lone 3d artist wasn't in jeopardy and no one click option would ever be able to compete with my work. In the last 12 months I've seen the first hints of this becoming a reality, with new tools like iray and vray for Revit as well as programs like Lumion, Twinmotion and Unreal we are closer than ever before to a one button render. As someone who's been doing things the same way for almost 2 decades I'm reluctantly beginning to realize that the old way may not be the best way anymore and I need to re-evaluate the way I work. In light of how quickly these programs are able to render it's becoming harder to justify the expense of maintaining a large render farm when a single PC can output animations and video in a fraction of the time and cost. I realize the quality may not yet be equal to what programs like Vray can produce especially for those very talented artists among us. However for the most part I think Architects tend to see CG as a necessary evil and I've found they are willing to give up some quality if it means faster production and potentially more imagery. Don't get me wrong I don't think this is the end of traditional rendering methods yet but it's not hard to imagine a day not too far off when they are no longer king of the hill. I'm eager to hear what the CGA community thinks about this and I'd love to know how you intend on dealing with this little problem especially those that work in house.
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    I make fake things for real people to convince them fake things are real.

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    Veteran Member matthewvalero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things are changing

    Still not worried about my job. Revit renderings look like butt and every try Unreal. There's still skill and artistry that a button will never be able to do. Instead of fear, embrace it and see where it takes you as an artist/designer.
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    Default Re: Things are changing

    "realtime", in whatever form, seems pretty obviously to be the future. It's which quiver you pull your arrow that's the question. Twinmotion/Lumion answers are, IMO, pretty average still, and they aren't particularly cheap nor flexible.

    UE4/Unity are clearly an interesting option, but the learning curve can be tough (I personally don't think so for Archviz, but this seems to be popular opinion) and you need to carefully plan projects and be sure your fee structure is suited. You arguably wouldn't use this option for a single still of a complex building - but for a complete package of stills/animation/360s/full VR, it's hard/impossible to beat in terms of breadth of production and quality. Nowhere near one button answer and that render farm is crucial to cutting bake times, so don't sell it yet! The notion that this workflow is difficult to manage or hard to monetise is no longer relevant, provided you plan things well and have a means to throw people and processing power at a job if needed.

    Traditional rendering is what it is. Your approach to it = how flexible and quick it is. I'm not personally interested in it much these days so I'll leave that to others to comment.

    Stay fluid, basically.

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    Veteran Member VelvetElvis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things are changing

    So I'll be the best button pusher ever. EVER!

    Real time like Enscape is great for the design phase renders, terrible for the marketing level renderings. So what that means for me is less time dealing with the change this bulkhead 10 times in one day rendering, and more time for me to focus on creating the image to sell the public on the idea.

    The other great thing about Enscape, hearing the Revit team bitch about how terribad their models are and why there are gaps and holes everywhere.
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    Veteran Member Justin Hunt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things are changing

    It a matter of working smarter, not harder. All the "one button" solutions mean is there will be less time to grab a cup of coffee while the computer renders.

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    Senior Member redvella's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things are changing

    Things are changing you are right, I installed UE4 this week - and im speachless. If you spend 8hrs a day in 3dsmax like I do... then it feels like you were just dropped 30 years into the future. I can see massive massive potential, speedy workflows already. I feel like a kid again really, these tools were never here when I learned (but expected them to be!).

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    Default Re: Things are changing

    Quote Originally Posted by VelvetElvis View Post
    So I'll be the best button pusher ever. EVER!

    Real time like Enscape is great for the design phase renders, terrible for the marketing level renderings. So what that means for me is less time dealing with the change this bulkhead 10 times in one day rendering, and more time for me to focus on creating the image to sell the public on the idea.

    The other great thing about Enscape, hearing the Revit team bitch about how terribad their models are and why there are gaps and holes everywhere.
    This. Enscape was touted as the answer to realtime at my firm, but like you say, the quality isn't there for a finished product, and I think the VR experience is pretty average. Our interiors and architecture teams use it extensively for early proof of concept stuff. Nifty tool!

    Has anyone had a look into Stingray (inclusive of the new realtime stuff in max 2018)? I found it severely lacking compared to UE4.

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    Veteran Member Justin Hunt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things are changing

    In many ways Max is way behind in realtime workflow development, just take a look at Modo11.1 and its unreal bridge https://www.foundry.com/products/modo/new-releases

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    Senior Member redvella's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things are changing

    ah! very good to know thank you Justin

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    Default Re: Things are changing

    Quote Originally Posted by eliotblenkarne View Post
    This. Enscape was touted as the answer to realtime at my firm, but like you say, the quality isn't there for a finished product, and I think the VR experience is pretty average. Our interiors and architecture teams use it extensively for early proof of concept stuff. Nifty tool!

    Has anyone had a look into Stingray (inclusive of the new realtime stuff in max 2018)? I found it severely lacking compared to UE4.
    I would not say, this is the best tool ever or this quality can't compare. We as Arch Viz always strive for best quality, but IMO this is can hurt us too, we need to learn to be flexible. Projects do not always need the highest quality to get the point, and most of the time there is no time to make it great, in those moments is when you really need to prove that you are a professional that can deliver what is need it in the time they give you.
    Having said that we are living in an incredible technological time, and all this new tech involves changes and a change is that, get used to the new thing because our old way will not work anymore.
    I work in house and I use everything I can, lately, we are using Stingray more just because the close interaction that gives us with REVIT and 3DMax. It is same quality than Unreal?? nope, it is Horrible? I don't think so, it depends on how much time you spend on it. But clients and designers really like and find useful the quick turn around that I can provide for VR design review sessions. Other designers in our company use Prospect for VR, and they just love it, graphic wise it looks like SketchUp and really they don't need more than that for their work.

    Could I get 'better' image quality in Unreal, of course, but I could not be able to deliver on time when changes are made and most of our clients are not impressed by DOF or glowing lights. We don't build white loft

    At the end as always it all depend on who is your client and budget, now you have so many tools to choose from, and that's great.

    Also as Scott mentioned, you don't need to worry about the little closet rendering or dark classroom 100 variations rendering that you used to do, that can be done in Enscape or Lumion or whatever by the designer itself right in front of the client if they like, you only need to worry about the money Dusky shot that you always rather do anyways
    "It is good to renew one's wonder"

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