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Thread: Getting left behind....

  1. #1
    Senior Member CliveG's Avatar
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    Default Getting left behind....

    I've read some of the other posts here with regards to what software is best for this and that in the VR / Realtime / Tour realm and generally the responses indicate that it's a very varied marketplace at the moment.

    I have clients who have interests in these services and I certainly don't want to get left behind in the services I offer, but at the same time can't see going and re-learning something like Unreal.... only for the potential for it NOT to be the one that explodes as I feel is likely to happen in this field soon.

    Does anyone else think that someone (like Legion/Chaos) is going to come out with a simple porting mechanism to take a Vray or Corona scene and bake the hell out of the mat's and lighting so that you get almost a one button move through to something like Unreal or equivalent, for your real time action? Or am I waaay off the pace here?

    Should I wait until the market is settled on a medium term winner?

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    Veteran Member Ernest Burden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting left behind....

    Uh, I don't know....

    I actually do not know anything about the subject of the CGA banner ad, but you've got to admit, it is well-placed considering your question.
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    Ernest Burden III
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    Default Re: Getting left behind....

    I work at a larger studio where we are both driven by our client needs and our own need to create new products to sell and encourage a deeper sale. I don't at the moment, personally possess the the hands on knowledge of the question you ask, but I can tell you that a few years ago we sought to learn these new tools from the ground up. I gave it a go for about a week and then quickly got mired in the steady stream of "regular" projects that we complete.

    This issue is not solely on the user. The companies that create these softwares are well aware of our established trade and are working to develop a workflow where the learning curve is as minimal as possible.

    Our studio has hosted meetings with Epic and with Autodesk as well as others. We have seen glimpses into the future and we are currently testing some of these softwares in development....

    All I can share is that while once upon a time it took ground up knowledge to implement these tools, what they all seem to be after is the automation of converting scenes developed for still and animated imagery in Max/VRay and converting them into usable files for RT/AR. They are also trying their best to simplify the "Blueprint" tools in a way that we have all seen before; more node-based scripting.

    This is not and will not likely ever be without some growth of knowledge, but they are doing a really great job in the realm of making that knowledge based need be something of learning only what it is to generate a real time file. They are making it so that the file and effort to develop materials and scenes; lights even in a lot of ways, is the one we all know and are only asking us to focus on file optimization and general look and feel at render time. And those tools, the look and feel tools are also using terms and methods that we already know.

    It won't ever be easy, but it will soon be and is already becoming something that we can all learn in a short amount of time and implement without any major overhauls to our current workflow. The future here looks so possible for all users.

    Sorry to be vague. As a person not directly involved in the testing, but neighbor enough to see the inner-workings I do not know what can be shared, but short of pricing, what I have seen will not set anyone apart from a knowledge perspective. It has all been developed in a way that anyone versed in what we do already should be able to make their way through the new tools without exhausted R&D.
    Last edited by CoreyMBeaulieu; 1 Week Ago at 12:01 AM.
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    Senior Member CliveG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting left behind....

    Thanks Corey,

    That pretty much backs up my gut feeling.... that this is a marketplace that will go "pop" soon enough. As a freelancer I'm never going to be on the crest of that wave... I just don't want to be too deep in the trough either

    Personally I think that somewhere in the Legion / Chaos tie-up is a key to this (for me anyway), I'll be looking to see who they start talking to next when it comes to strategic alliances ?!

    'till then I'll wait for you guys to take the risks and do the hard yards

    Cheers

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    Senior Member redvella's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting left behind....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest Burden View Post
    Uh, I don't know....

    I actually do not know anything about the subject of the CGA banner ad, but you've got to admit, it is well-placed considering your question.
    What Ernest said. Datasmith is designed to be a 1 click solution. By far the quickest easiest way to get your max scene into unreal with all materials lighting etc.
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    Junior Member lautarovogel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting left behind....

    Datasmith is still in beta testing phase afaik, but I think it's what you are looking for.
    https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/b...-unreal-engine

    cheers,

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    Veteran Member Ernest Burden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting left behind....

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveG View Post
    ...As a freelancer I'm never going to be on the crest of that wave... I just don't want to be too deep in the trough either...
    There is a deep trough for small freelancers that has developed since the Great Recession where we are skilled/experienced enough to command good rates and work on anything, but not big enough to handle really large multi-format jobs (renderings, animation, VR, web integration, etc.), especially within a reasonable timeframe. Clients can also get good work for much less money from overseas vs. expensive local rendering markets, like North America.

    It is not workable for a small shop, especially a one-person shop, to expect to offer everything the big shops can. So what is your area of most likely success? VR? Perhaps if you specialize in it, dump all resources into learning it and getting all your hardware/software into that area, that would work. But it would come at the expense of other services you can offer.

    I was looking at the website of a renderer known mostly for hand painted work yesterday, and saw that he shows animation, noting that it is in collaboration with some other entity, and the same for 'digital' work--mentions yet another 'partner'. Perhaps small freelance rendering practices could form alliances where combining expertise and performance ability of a group of small specialists could work to compete with the larger 'under-one-roof' studios.
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    Moderator Maxer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting left behind....

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveG View Post
    Does anyone else think that someone (like Legion/Chaos) is going to come out with a simple porting mechanism to take a Vray or Corona scene and bake the hell out of the mat's and lighting so that you get almost a one button move through to something like Unreal or equivalent, for your real time action? Or am I waaay off the pace here?

    Should I wait until the market is settled on a medium term winner?
    I took the plunge into Unreal a few months ago before Datasmith came out and it was very difficult and time consuming. I was able to get into the Datasmith beta and I have to say the thing really works wonders, it's not perfect yet but easily cuts your work in half. This is a great development for our industry and as tools like this begin to come out along with software like Lumion and Twin Motion very soon we will have many options for high quality quick rendering.

    I have to believe Chaos Group is looking at this and thinking this aint so good, after all why have Vray if your going to use Unreal to render everything out. If I were them I'd be seriously looking at two options, one to adapt the current tech they have in a way that can compete with Unreal's render times or develop a new rendering method that does the same thing. I don't know about you but I'm finding it hard to justify the cost in both time and money using Vray to render animations when I can use a free program like Unreal and get descent quality imagery.

    As an example I've started using Lumion to render out less important animations, on one machine rendering 1080P @ 60 FPS my render times are about 5 hours for a 45 second animation. To render the same thing out using Vray in the same amount of time I'd need a render farm of about 100 PC's. The cost of Lumion is $3500, Vray with all it's licenses and a render management solution like Deadline costs about 18K. That doesn't include the cost of the farm which is well over 100K. So my point is that once GPU rendering really takes off there will be lots of people moving to that method even if the quality isn't as good as Vray, the cost/time benefit is just too great.
    I make fake things for real people to convince them fake things are real.

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    Senior Member redvella's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting left behind....

    Devin you may be interested to know vray for unreal is here

    https://youtu.be/zPYKaFADVx8
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  10. #10
    Moderator Maxer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting left behind....

    Yes that's what' Datasmith is but I don't believe this is a long term solution to this problem for Chaos, there's no money in it for them.
    I make fake things for real people to convince them fake things are real.

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