Anybody in for a testdrive?

[DennisHolland]

Hi all,

 

I'm busy with getting a grasp on my newly purchased vr-tool...Wirefusion.

 

I've tested a lot of the innovative tools which are populating the market now a days and Demicron (Wirefusion that is) seems to be the best choice.

 

There are some things I'm not quite confident about, and that is the differents in quality on several processors. On my Intel P4 (3.4Gz-2Gb-HT) it runs like a train, very smooth and good quality. On the other hand, it runs very shaky on my spare workstation, which is an AMD Athlon (1.4Gz-1Gb).

 

So please someone test this presentation for me and let me know what you think of it? I.e. is it loading fast, does it run smoothly, how about the AA? (Yes, the file is the good ol' library in the Max tuts, artwork on the wall is mine;-)

 

Wirefusion test

 

Thanks guys,

 

Dennis

[lambros]

It took half a minute to load on a 384kbps slow dsl connection. On my P4 3.4/2gb ram (just like yours) its speed was ok, but when I rotated the view right , it froze. Bear in mind though that this was on Firefox. Actually firefox froze, and I had to restart the pc to run it again.

On my internet server (P4 1.8, 1gb ram) it was a bit slower, although it ran without problems on Internet explorer.

Hope that helped a bit

[DennisHolland]

Thanks Lambros,

 

I'm aware of the slow loadingspeed, it has got to do with the hi-res textures in it. I made the scene very heavy on purpose to give it all...Let's face it, 30 secs loadingtime, combined with the pleasant fact of not downloading any weird plugs is an improvement, compared with all other authoring/vr-tools in the market. I like the Wirefusiontool a lot, it has fantastic features (except great lighting and soft shadows,but we are pulling their arms to solve that part too) and in the fast lane to the top in VR, I'm sure of that.

 

The important thing is that the navigation is smooth, thank God that part is sorted. You see, this tool is in strong development and we are testing it while it's in the midst of it so yes, there could be some artifacts within' the java-part.

 

The freezing is nothing more than running into an object, I hope:D, this scene has collision-detection turned on. If that's not the problem, it could be the Firefox issue they are talking about at the Demicron forums. I admit, the startpoint of the camera is just next to some chairs, therefore running into some things causes freezing of navigation, so I will improve that bit.

 

Thanks for the feedback,

 

Dennis

 

_______________________________

Dennis de Priester Interactive Media

The Netherlands

 

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[Richard McCarthy]

Runs quite fine Dennis

The scene have a lot of polygons, and considering this is a Java 3D solution that runs in SOFTWARE 3D mode (with no help from your 3D card) it runs marvelously smoooth.

Since it is only a test, I could still suggest to use some BAKED radiosity solution to the model... it will make the scene more realistic. Also play around with "smoothing angle (bigger than 30 degree should be fine)" so you can just smooth between the edges without creating more polygons.

 

My spec is : Athlon XP 2600, 1GB Ram, nvidia GF4 card.

[DennisHolland]

Thanks Richard,

 

yes, the great thing of Wirefusion is that it's very userfriendly with a lot of potential. Not only in VR, but I think it's an overall great piece of work with some nice (and niche) features. A bonus is the support from the guys at Demicron, just fantastic. You don't see that a lot lately...

 

I've used quite a bit of polygons, hires max7-textures, reflections and lighting (6 max omni's > adjustable in Wirefusion) in it and still no complaints overhere, pretty amazing though. I'm working on the smooth angle you've mentioned, finish up tonight. Especially on the chair at the rightside, there are some strange things going on. Also some of my furniture assets are crippled after loading in WF, while they act normal when imported in the object-mode.

 

The baking issue? 'Automatic unwrap' and Wirefusion don't go along. Wirefusion doesn't 'see' the new material and the baked, unwrapped texture, only when you bake in your actual channel. They know it and solve this issue in the next upgrade is one of their things to do.

 

Thanks for the feedback Richard, good luck.

 

Dennis

 

Dennis de Priester Interactive Media

The Netherlands

[bjornkn]

It loaded slow, but ran quite nicely in Opera on AMD Athlon XP3000+ Win XP Pro.

 

But what is strange is that all the examples on the Wirefusion site refused to run. They all showed "Applet crashed" in Opera.

 

Thanks for the tip about Wirefusion though :-)

It looks like it may be what I've been looking for for a long time - an interactive 3D solution that will run without any plugins, and on all (Java) platforms

I have a client who wants this, but will not have any plugins involved. I wanted to use VET, but they didn't...

 

If only I could find out why all the gallery examples crashed..

I sent them a message. Maybe they have a solution/explanation?

[DennisHolland]

Thanks Bjorn,

 

great to know that the Opera issue is sorted. That's a big step forward, it used to have problems with WF in the last version (4.0).

 

 

But what is strange is that all the examples on the Wirefusion site refused to run. They all showed "Applet crashed" in Opera.

 

Yes, exactly that is the big frustration for everybody. I guess you've tried the 'art-gallery' presentation at Demicron's? When you post a thread about it on the Demicron forum, there are a lot of theories, but none of them fixes the problems. The developers are very aware of it and I'm sure they know what it is but not (yet) be able to deal with it. It's got something to do with the constant java-updates down at sun-microsystems, I'm sure of that. Somewhere in the bugfix pages is a short line that is mentioning something in that direction...very carefully though.

 

I still can not figure out what and why in java. It's not in my line of expertise and I just want java to do what it's supposed to do, that's all;-)

 

Good luck Bjorn,

 

Dennis

 

____________________________

Dennis de Priester Interactive Media

The Netherlands

[bjornkn]

Strange!

So your scene was made with the newest version (4.1?) and the newest Java install?

And all the examples in the Demicron gallery were probably made with older versions of WF (and Java?)?

Yours worked in Opera, but theirs didn't?

I tried some of the gallery scenes in IE, and they seemed to have no problems. And usually there are no problems with Java applets in Opera.

I'm glad I'm not the one that have to find that bug ;-)

 

BTW, which version did you buy?

I think their prices are a bit steep, but then I suppose there's no licensing fees per site or similar?

I don't know if the Standard version would be enough for simple walkthrough animations with hotspots etc, but I dont know if the extra $1k for the Enterprise is worth it?

[DennisHolland]

Strange!

So your scene was made with the newest version (4.1?) and the newest Java install?

And all the examples in the Demicron gallery were probably made with older versions of WF (and Java?)?

 

Yes, I work with the latest build. I've purchased a version 4.0 and upgraded it last week to 4.1. Maybe it's not the problem that the gallery-samples are made with 4.0 but with an older java-type. Sun is updating their java every 8 weeks or so, and obviously that is hard to keep by, moneywise, for a developer of authoringtools.

 

Price is not very friendly but on the other hand, the software has great potential if you know what I mean. Also, did you take a look at our Dutch developers of Quest3D (Leiden, the Netherlands a.k.a. Act3D) or Anark (not sure about them, impressive campaign, expensive, but a lack of quality).

 

Overall I think that Wirefusion beats 'm all for what really matters, (possiblities, creatives-friendly and no plugs!) Shortly, all hands together for Demicron...

 

Dennis

[bjornkn]

Thanks for the info I've been testing it for a while now, and it seems to be pretty good. It doesn't look like it's possible to work with big scenes with lots of textures though..

I have looked at the others too, like Anark, Cult3D, VET and also Shockwave 3D and Atmosphere, but they all need plugins. I liked VET, which had a good quality IMO, but it was very expensive to use. I believe they have changed their licensing scheme now? I still can't understand how MetaCreations, who had many good and successful programs, could sell out everything and focus only on the VET. I really miss Canoma!

I haven't tried Quest3D though (didn't know about it until now)

Regarding Java and backwards compatibility, it is a bit strange that new versions should break the code in older applets? I don't think I have seen that happen with other Java applets? I eventually did manage to view them in Opera by removing the "Identify as MSIE" setting. But it still doesn't work all the time, and it does cause Opera to freeze and/or crash sometimes..

[quizzy]

Loading Java Applet Failed......???

 

I could see a little test but then it freezed... It was a little shocky (no directX support I guess) on my P4 3,2 2GB RAM.... tried a re-click but then I get the message above....

[DennisHolland]

Michiel,

 

it's a bug in the earlier version (4.1). This presentation was made with it...

 

Here's another one, done with the last build (4.1.3) and optimized. It's a java-conflict that causes the trouble with earlier versions of WF. direct-X 9.0 support is in it from the start and no probs reported.

 

New test

 

See you,

Dennis

[thomas+son]

Dennis

Thank you for the test drive- loaded in 30-40sec +/- Ran on P4 2.53GHz and GeForceFX5700 Vcard.

 

it looks good, I am more of a Keyboard arrows = move fan, but that is me.

 

thanks for sharing, keep us posted on your results

David Thomas

(Thomas+Son)

[DennisHolland]

Thanks David,

 

I must work on the loadingtimes. It could improve a lot when I optimize the texture-sizes (which is causing the long loadings).

 

For the keyboard/shortcuts? On of the great features within' this software is that you can assign any key on the board to the action you like. This tool, Wirefusion, needs a lot of improvement but I know that the guys from development are working real hard to provide the arch-vis fields with one of the most sophisticated realtime software shortly. If I have any updates to announce, then I'm the first one to post it right here.

 

Good luck,

Dennis

[Richard McCarthy]

Dennis, it look very good to me too.

Load time is around 15 second (?!) on my 512kbp ADSL, and I like the environmental map !

 

One issue I found it could be WF's problem is that, when navigating with keyboard it is EXTREMELY SLOW. I think it's a input timer issue, the input is somehow synch to a clock of sort. (maybe for some sort of synchronization)

If you use a mouse to navigate it is about 10 times faster and smoother.

My setup is Athlon 2600 XP, GeForce 4200, 1GB of RAM. Tested on IE 6.

(I think mozilla have problem with Java on this kind of thing)

 

 

Also I think more lightmaps would be nice although I know you have the issue memory requirement associated with that. Another suggestion I have is to set up couple of defined views and have buttons you can just click to fly to those views. VRML supports define views, so I am guessing WF would too.

[DennisHolland]

Thanks Richard,

 

I'm still optimizing the testprojects and what is causing the nice speed (loading/navigating) is the low amount of Kb's for the textures and overall dimensions of the presentation itself.

 

You're right about the shortcut-speed. It's 100% adjustable in WF and I simply forgot to assign an equal speed to shortcuts but it's just a matter of input of the speed you desire. I kinda like this software more and more each time I play around with it. It has so much features (also the standard version which is a fraction of the regular costs) I foresee a big future for the guys at Demicron, which are also great people to communicate with.

 

Yes, mozilla is ecountering some probs lately but it's on the list at development down there. They are frequently putting new updates online for free download so it's a matter of time to solve this issue. No need to say that they discovered the huge possibilities for our (arch-vis) market globally so it might has something to do with the great services lately

 

The ligtmapping. I know what to do and there are some default lightmaps within' the WF standard library. The project online is just a test so it's not finished yet and I'm working on it each minute of my free time...it's fun to work with the tool.

 

There is also a lot of interactivity and scripting in it, so shifting between cams is a piece of cake and animations (made in max) can also be started with a buttonclick, and stopped with one as well.

 

Well, that's about it...good luck.

 

Dennis