When does the client get the rendering

[ihabkal]

I don't know if this topic was discussed here before but I want to know when you guys think is usually the time to get paid, before you start working, after you deliver, during work.... Do you ever touch a project before getting a downpayment? do you ever deliver before getting the final payment? How upfront and frank are you when asking for money?

[ecastillor]

I don't know if this topic was discussed here before but I want to know when you guys think is usually the time to get paid, before you start working, after you deliver, during work.... Do you ever touch a project before getting a downpayment? do you ever deliver before getting the final payment? How upfront and frank are you when asking for money?

 

 

The way to play it is:

 

1.-Get an advance before starting (usually 50%)

2.-Send only low res. watermarked advances of your work.

3.- Get the rest upon delivery of final renderings.

4.- Charge for any changes to the final result.

 

The sad true way sometimes.

1- Start with no advance

2.- Deliver renders in a hurry

3.- Get no money like for a month

4.- People seem to think you are responsible for the neverending free of charge changes that the architects clients always want.

 

So its always to have everything signed on paper befor you start to work.

Good luck

[Sawyer]

Eduardo, You must work for the same people as I do!

[Iain Denby]

I don't know anyone in the UK who would get an advance. Here's my workflow:

 

Agree the fee.

Produce the artwork

slight amendments if required (usually)

deliver the goods with your invoice.

Pay in 30 days.

Day 31 chase payment

Get it within a few days.

[ihabkal]

But of course Iain you get a signed contract first?

thanks,

Ihab

[Iain Denby]

But of course Iain you get a signed contract first?

thanks,

Ihab

 

No I don't actually. I never have done. I know it's probably noy good business sense, but I've bnever had a problem in 15 years.

[Jeff Mottle]

If the project is small and short timeframe I will usually bill after the project is done.

 

For larger projects I've always asked for a 20-50% retainer and then full payment upon delivery (usually 10-30 days net). If the project runs for several months then we get a retainer, bill monthly progress payment and do NET 30 on the final payment.

 

Of course it goes without saying that all work is done under contract. ALWAYS!

[Tim Nelson]

I usually don't get a retainer either, unless its a large job with multiple renderings. THen I will bill as Jeff described.

 

I used a contract for the first time with a new client recently. I am SO glad that I did that because there was change after change on the project, and the contract clearly states that any additional changes would be billed the hourly rate of "xx" amount. I haven't invoiced yet, but we'll see how that goes! If I didn't have a signed contract, I would not feel as comfortable charging the additional amounts for the changes.

[Jeff Mottle]

No I don't actually. I never have done. I know it's probably noy good business sense, but I've bnever had a problem in 15 years.

 

All I have to say it that you must be one lucky guy. I would not dream of working out of contract. On the flip side however all CGA advertising is under contract as well, and at least once a year I have a company try to walk away from their contract becuase they don't have the forthought to think about what they are doing before they sign a long term deal. For some it seems ignorance is bliss. A contract will allow you to send those unclaimed fees to a collection agency though, or to court if required.

[Chad Warner]

We have a clear rule in our office--no project folder gets created without a signed contract. The reason being, as soon as we make a folder for a project without the contract, the client calls and says they don't want to do the rendering anymore.

 

-Chad

[Iain Denby]

None of my clients, new and old, ever discuss contracts. A quick letter or email regarding the commission does the trick...nice and clean. It's a 2 way trust thing. I could just as easily decide, the day before I was due to start, to work on something else instead, leaving the client in the shit.

[archkre]

When I hear the word Contract I can hear the word Lawyer too!

Very few pro would sign any kind of contract without consulting an attorney (big bucks)previously in a very litigious society like the American.

Maybe the Contract could be some brief piece similar to a "fee proposal" or alike in order to make things easier.

Does somebody have a model anything like that to use as a guide?

[ecastillor]

None of my clients, new and old, ever discuss contracts. A quick letter or email regarding the commission does the trick...nice and clean. It's a 2 way trust thing. I could just as easily decide, the day before I was due to start, to work on something else instead, leaving the client in the shit.

 

Thats usually how it goes.... Ive had clients for years and everything works OK that way...but Ive also had 3 or 4 clients who didnt pay the last job and just went looking for some other fool to do the same thing to. So watch out!

[Ernest Burden III]

I work under an agreement sometimes, others not. In over 20 years only a few problems, and a contratc would not have helped them anyway.

 

I have seen clients recently take a proposal as an agreement, so if I mention a retainer check to begin, they will just send me the check, and once they've done that, I figure I've thrown enough paper at them. So the trick is to get any important contract language into a proposal.

 

I had a thread recently about an ad agency and their 'all rights are ours' fine print. For them I got a signed contract, and it is a COD contract, so I should send them an invoice today in advance of completed drawings today and tomorrow. Its not fun to be a hardass about this, so usually I don't. But for these people, maybe its the right time.

[ihabkal]

Thats usually how it goes.... Ive had clients for years and everything works OK that way...but Ive also had 3 or 4 clients who didnt pay the last job and just went looking for some other fool to do the same thing to. So watch out!

thoseare abundant in the middle east. A lot of them did that to me. imagine that: you're a student or a new graduate, and you try to make some money to pay for college expenses, and there's this asshole who hires you to do something and doesn't pay, then he hires someone else in the same ccollege or elsewhere, and so on.... where do they get the nerves to screw people like that? And when you start you are easily hurt.... now I have crocodile skin like emotional layer....and it still boils my blood to think about it. not because I love money, but becasue they did that to me when I was most vulnerable...

[afegadi]

The sad true way sometimes.

1- Start with no advance

2.- Deliver renders in a hurry

3.- Get no money like for a month

4.- People seem to think you are responsible for the neverending free of charge changes that the architects clients always want.

 

at the office, our boss is the one who comes down with an spoken agreement wiht the client, and then he delivers the project to one of the architects at the team, after he gets an advance [it is not always like that] and then one of us has the responsability with our boss, with the client, with the constructor, with the construction until we finish it

But what i hate the most, is the hurry and the fresh attitude of the client that working in AutoCAD is easy and fast, it only takes a few minutes they say, change this wall, correct this window, change the texture here, put some more lights....... . . . . . . .

[ecastillor]

at the office, our boss is the one who comes down with an spoken agreement wiht the client, and then he delivers the project to one of the architects at the team, after he gets an advance [it is not always like that] and then one of us has the responsability with our boss, with the client, with the constructor, with the construction until we finish it

But what i hate the most, is the hurry and the fresh attitude of the client that working in AutoCAD is easy and fast, it only takes a few minutes they say, change this wall, correct this window, change the texture here, put some more lights....... . . . . . . .

 

I Love(sarcasm) it when the clients say:

 

"But the computer does everything!" or "You make it looks so easy!" and think you shouldnt get paid.......Im getting mad already......

[ihabkal]

I Love(sarcasm) it when the clients say:

 

"But the computer does everything!" or "You make it looks so easy!" and think you shouldnt get paid.......Im getting mad already......

 

 

I am already past that....heard it so much it goes into my ears but not into my brain it is filtered out....

[Andy Hickes]

My proposal (contract)states:

 

Computer model will be made and rough views will be sent to client. Client will approve views.

Views will be rendered. Client will review finished rendering and specify changes or alterations needed (if any).

Any and all changes and alterations at this time will be made at no cost. (Later changes or alterations to be billed

at a per hour rate of $150/hr.) Rendering

will commence upon receipt of 50% deposit.

 

 

 

Deposit exceptions are made for clients that are large corporations, for example, The Gap, whose complex billing procedures l don't allow for it. No exceptions are made for clients in parallel fields like real estate developers, advertising agencies, contractors, and architects who should know better.

 

 

In 30 years I have only not been paid in full two times.