CRT or LCD

[Cesar R]

Hello once again, I am looking to buy a new screen and I was wondering what are some of the things to consider when buying my next screen. I work with Flash and photoshp and archicad and Viz and all that good stuff as we all here do.

 

 

I was looking at a sony flat panel 17" HS-model 17" Flat Panel LCD

SDM-HS73/H

 

and a CRT STYLEPRO Series 19 FD Trinitron® CRT

HMD-A440

 

Thanks

[r2]

hey cesar,

I was looking for a new LCD too (actually a viewsonic vx2000). I'm going 20"!! Now i'm kinda in between on the whole idea. I'm working in the same environment you are (software wise) but also have a bad addiction of playing CounterStrike. :angeuhoh:

 

Here the Video Response on the screens make all the difference in the world, even for fast motion playback ( for example 25ms). Other things to consider are the contrast ratio (600:1) , viewing angle (170degrees), the native viewing resolution (1600x1200) and even the pixel pitch (.255). BTW those are just numbers from the VX2000 that i put in for example.

 

After going through enough reviews I'm reconsidering getting a Sony 21"CRT and a quadro750 videocard instead. And then getting another 21" and going dual, how funny. :???:

 

check out this forum, they covered alot of the topics:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-one-category?topic_id=1701&category=Monitors

 

hope I didnt confuse you more.

[Cesar R]

Thanks R2 -d2 ?just kiddin, tanks

[Jeff Mottle]

While I was at my local KODAK rep the other day getting a 4 hour demo on color calibrated environments and profiling, I was told to avoid flat planels for any sort of accurate color work. He said if you HAD to use a flat panel that the Apple was the only one that was worth lookgin at from a color accuracy stand point and even then it was not all that great.

 

Something else I learned that I did not know was that most monitors only have a life of about 3 years in terms of their ability to be brough into spec with a monitor calibrator like a Pantone Spyder. I just bought one of these the other day. I have Viewsonic Professional series monitors and was on'y just able to get them into spec. The Red guns are maxed out and I have only had them for about a year. I alsolearned that Viewsonics are not that great and are overreated. When they buy monitors, they don't go by brand but by what the electronics are inside.

[garethace]

Very good post Jeff. Is the calibration device very hard to use?

 

I can vouch for the APple flatscreens - i got to use one for 3 weeks a while ago. You should have seen my physically fight for that thing when the boss decided on CRT instead!!! orangemad

[Ernest Burden III]

I stick with Sony monitors. I used to use NEC, but they started dying on me. A collegue uses Lacia BlueEye, but they are based on the same Trinitron as my Sony. I actually need to get a new one soon. You can always get a Barco (what tube do they use?) but they cost a LOT. Three years, huh? Did they specificly say that applied to Trinitron screens?

 

I should get a Spyder.

 

Did the workshop cover printing profiles, Jeff? I know Kodak has some products aimed at we Giclee-ers. See, first you get a fancy title and then you're wasting away in seminars being pitched products. Tell 'em to buy ad space and THEN you'll listen to the sales pitch. It's great to be popular...

[ingo]

How about Eizo monitors ? I use a 19" now for more than four years without problems. They have some of the best calibrated electronics inside.

 

BTW there is one problem with large LCD's like Apple's 23", the colorshifting appears even if you just sit in front of the monitor and move your eyes to view from the left side to the right side. So better buy two 20" instead

[Jeff Mottle]

I sent an email off to the KODAK guy to see what trinitron electronics he reccomends. I know that Barco and Lacia were obviously high on his list but he like everyone recognizes that these are out of reach for most people. [Tidbit: An average pro monitor can only achive an illuminance of 85-90 these higher end monitors can achieve in the 120's.]

 

Arnold: Yeah he covered printing profiles but unless you have some cash for a GretagMacbeth Densitometer, you will be better off to just pay to have it done. These little handheld devices are worth 1000's. Also reading 900 color swatches off of a color patch card is about as much fun as watching paint dry. This KODAK dealer has a high speed reader to speed up the process, but that costs even more.

 

The Pantone Spyder is actually pretty easy to use. There are two steps. First you need to pre calibrate your monitor to a known measured color temperature. You first pick a temp you are going to use like 5000K, 6000K etc. D50 (around 5200K) is what the photographic industry is standardised on in the US so that is what I am using.

And no the 5000K setting on your monitor is not acccurate.

 

Then you set your contrast to 100% this is where is will stay too. Then adjust your brightness using their on screen image calibration.

From here you stick the device onto your monitor and take a reading. At this point what is does is read the illuminance output of each gun (RGB) and displays a color bar. It does this by displaying a color patch on screen under the sensor of a know value. In this case pure Red, Green and then Blue. Once you have a readout you then need to adjust the RGB gun levels on your monitor until they are all an equal level with no more than a 0.5 Duv and the total illuminance is between 85-90 cd/m^2. Once you have done this you are ready to generate a monitor profile.

 

This process is idiot proof. Just attach the spyder to the monitor and press calibrate. The software will cycle though a series of color patches and grey scales which gnerated the profile and allow you to save an ICC profile that is loaded at startup. Note:You need to make sure that you turf the Adobe Gamma control, any other color correction tools and any other hardware video card settings that are affecting the monitor output before you do any of this. I was told that Adobe Gamma is the biggest piece of **** around, so you should not use it.

 

As I did not quite understand what a monitor profile did I'll explain what I was told. A profile is simply a set of values that are added to the monitor lookup tables used by the OS. These numbers alter what you see on screen from what the video card is trying to output. These values generated from the Spyder calibrating process ensure that what is output is of a know value and is within spec of the desired output color temperature.

 

Another thing I should note. I mentioned earlier that a monitor would probably only have a 3 year life. The reason for this is the illuminance values. Over time you will no longer be able to get these values within the 85-90 range and then you either live with it or buy new. Also monitor brightness and contrast have almost no affect over color illuminance. This is stricty a measure of the intensity of the overal gun outputs.

 

Alright, well I've almost written every thng I know about monitor profiling now. Next week...how to implement a calibrated color managed environemnt.

 

BTW I am no expert in this field. I'm only regurgitating what my very knowledable KODAK dealer told me. They spent over $50,000 on developing and doing R & D on a reliable color managment process for their clients, so I am just getting this all set up at Smoothe using my new found knowledge.

 

[ May 02, 2003, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Jeff Mottle ]

[Cesar R]

Is it possible to hook up an apple LCD to a pc? I've read they are comparable to CRT so i am very interested. DVI is supposed to provide better quality correct?

[Greg Hess]

Ya, works fine.

 

You just need...

 

1) An Apple to DVI-I adapter (Apple = Pseudo name for their weird DVI-I standard)

 

2) A graphics card capable of supporting the 1920x1200 reduced blanking DVI-I output.

 

#2 is a bit harder, as only a few cards can support the resolution required by the 23 inch cinema display.

 

You have to check with the manufacter of your video card to see if it supports this resolution THROUGH DVI-I.

 

Cards I've confirmed work with the display.

 

Quadro4 900XL

Quadro4 980XL

Quadro4 FX 1000

Quadro4 FX 2000

 

I think it should also work with the Dual DVI-I Geforce4 Ti 4600's, but have not confirmed this.

 

ATI states that all Radeon 9XXX cards are incapable of supporting this through DVI-I.

 

FireGL cards may follow different DVI-I output schemes, but once again, you'd have to check directly with ATI on that.

[Cesar R]

Thanks for the advice and comments guys,

I went a picked up an Apple display (Studio display 17inch) and he resolution I must say just blew me away both and the store and here installed to my PC. I was considering the 23" but my budget is a little tight at the moment so I may buy another 17" in the next few months possilbe x-mas. I am looking to switch platforms and go MAC. What do you guys think?

Today at the store my fiance and I also bougt a power book 12" G4. - for my self like I mentioned I am considering a G4 tower with dual CPU's to replace my athlon. Any insights?

[ingo]

Just wondering, why didn`t you take the 20" Apple LCD ? Its actual Apple's display with the best quality and since its a widescreen with a 1680x1050 resolution i think one monitor is enough. But that depends obviously on the type of your work.

Glad to hear that we get another Mac user here in the cga forums. Since it seems that your budget isn`t ready for buying a new Mac i consider waiting for the developer conference in June, there we expect to see Apple's new roadmap for future developments.

[Cesar R]

Well I figured that two screen will in the long run allow me to be more organized, for instance I can have phoshop on one maximized and Viz on the other maxzimined also. Whereas if I have the 20" I would probably just maximized one app on it thus defeating the pourpose of what I want. Also a 20" is a little out of my $$ range at this point. I want to go buy and IPOD ! I cant work with out music.

[seismograph]

just have a look into your yellow pages:

Any trinitron monitor can be calibrated after loosing sharpness and colorcalibration.

Even new monitors should be adjusted

This service is normaly only for warrenty cases when a monitor have a defect in the electronic, but you can ask such companies if they do it on normal monitors too.

 

This works great and you will get a monitor which IS better calibrated and have a sharper image.

[LivinOnTheEdge]

I just switched from a 21" crt to a 19" lcd.

I luv the lcd. (samsung 19" rebadged as a dell) It's so much easier on your eyes, consumes less power, takes up less space, and doesn't pump out the heat.

 

But, the color is quite as vibrant as a crt, or the resolution up to the high levels as a crt.

I luv the lcd, and won't ever go back. It does ghost a bit with fast movies and action vid games.

[xgarcia]

I've also been considering the switch to LCD (for my eyes sake). Right now I have a Sony Trinitron and a Dell Latitude c810 laptop (with 15" LCD). Comparing the two screens I find the color to be better on my trinitron. Whenever I adjust an image in photoshop on the laptop and then view it on the Sony Trinitron, the color looks much much darker. Why the difference? I'm worried if I switch exclusively to LCD that I will produce images that look good on the LCD but horrible on other monitors (internet) and in print.

 

Xavier

[Cesar R]

I have the same problem with my computers.

 

I ended up with an apple 17" studio LCD and whenever I adject something on there it look lighter on my laptop. Now the tricky part is that my laptop is a 17" Powerbook. So shouldnt the colors match ?!

[mbr]

I have the same concern. I've got a Dell Trinitron 21er and am borrowing a Dell 8500 Laptop (15"). I love the contrast on the laptop, but I am afraid it will skew my perception of colors and contrast (that clients will see). I've noticed some discrepancies with my current project as my client only uses a laptop.

 

Anyone have problems with this??

 

Has anyone looked at the new Samsung 21.3" LCD for $1300?? Damn, they are looking really tempting.