Laptop Processors

[Ringas]

Hi guys. I have the following dilemma. My girlfriend has been accepted at Harvard Graduate School of Design and is about to buy a new laptop. IBM has special discounts for Harvard and she has narrowed her options down to three laptops:

 

a)R40: Intel Pentium M 1.3 GHz Centrino / 15" TFT / $1,651

b)T30: Intel Pentium 4-M 2.4 GHz / 14.1" TFT / $1,460

c)T40: Intel Pentium M 1.6 GHz / 14.1" TFT / $1,888

 

All three are basically the same (just different HDs, etc).

 

I was wondering how the different Intel processors compare to each other. I opt for the first one because of the bigger screen but maybe the Centrino 1.3 processor might not be powerful enough.

 

What do you think? Thank you in advance,

 

Tassos Ringas

National Technical University of Athens (N.T.U.A.)

Faculty of Architecture

archigrid@hotmail.com

[mbr]

That's not really a deal, unless they have stellar specs, and given a 14.1", I'd guess not.

 

For comparison:

 

Dell 5150

P IV 3.06

15" UXGA (that's upgraded)

512 mb ram

40GB hd

64 mb GeForce

XP Professional

CDRW/DVD

 

For about $1850.

 

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V474&l=en&oc=5150CS&s=dhs

 

That's how I'd spec it for that price. XP Pro, video, ram, etc.

If you want one of the mobile chips, look at the 8500 or D800 (and awesome 15.4" screen) or the smaller ones

[bigcahunak]

The Pentium M is the same CPU thats in the Centrino package, so CPU wise you are in the same category with a 300mhz speed advantage to the T40. If she needs the wireless part of the centrino than there is only one option and its the one that has the centrino (the R40 in your case). However since the others aren't centrinos I draw the conclusion that centrino features aren't a necessity for her. In that case I'd drop the R40 which is big and heavy, and go with the T40. Having used both 15" and 14.1" I think its not a big difference unless you go with a SXGA LCD and work @ 1400 res.

From past school experience - if you have a "heavy" (relatively heavy...) laptop it stays at home.

I'd ask her to check about wireless network at the areas where she's going to be. For sure the Library is wireless networked already and I wont be surprised if the whole campus is. In that case the centrino wins, but to make it easier look for a centrino package in a T40 look.

Good luck - man thats Harvard... Graduate... congrats.

 

*edit*

BTW: MBR, you used the regular desktop P4 (the 3.06) which makes the package big, power hungry (be it the standard desktop flavor of the P4) and hot (what do you expect when they stick a CPU that is usued to be in an ATX case, into a laptop case...) - probably not a "too mobile" sulotion. Its more like a movable gamming rig.

 

[ August 26, 2003, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: bigcahunak ]

[bigcahunak]

The centrino is a package name for Intel's Pentium M (codename "banias", not the P4 M) coupled with an Intel 855 chipset and a WLAN adapter in mini-PCI format called Calexico, which is based on the 802.11b/a standard. Only notebooks with this whole package have Intel's approval to carry the name 'Centrino Notebook.' As soon as one of the above is missing, it ain't Centrino no more.

Sometime when ppl start asking what the difference is, a sales person will say "its the centrino processor..." once you hear that you want to make sure if its the processor, or the package, cause the processor is just the pentium M without the rest of the parts that make it a centrino. If it was a centrino (the T40), believe me - they would have made sure its specifically written and perfectly seen. The WI-FI wireless is what you want to see in the specs if you want the wireless network adapter.

I worked on 1400x1050 on a 15" only, never on a 14.1". I liked the 1024 res on a 14.1" but not for real work. Basically I hate working on laptops, whuch explain why I prefer the 1024 on a 14.1 cause I dont spend hours on laptop working like I do on a desktop. On that matter its a personal preference - got to hae some experience to decide for yourself. I wouldnt do MAX stuff on a laptop anyway (I know I'm inviting some responces here... but thats my personal preference)

 

14.1" and 15" are real true viewable sizes - Yes.

 

Good luck.

[mzagorski]

I have been using a Dell, 512 ram, 15" screen (definitely wouldn't want smaller when using Max), Pentium 3 866Mhz... Inspiron 8100. It also has a 16mb Nvidia Go2 card.

 

I works pretty good but I think that the positioning of the fans (under right side of LCD) caused my LCD screen to get a bad patch of whiteness due to long hours of intensive computing.

 

Someone said they wouldn't do Max on a laptop, Well... this model and render was all done on a laptop using Max, Photoshop and Brazil to render.

 

 

So, as you can see.. even a mediocre laptop based on what laptops are available now (2 years after I purchased mind) can be used to make some alright work.

 

Number 1 advice - make sure you get a good warranty for a laptop. I've learnt that lesson!

[mbr]

From my experience at grad school, laptops would be a huge waste of money. We spent every waking hour in the studios, and therefore bought the fastest things we could afford to stay in the studio.

If you want mobility, Dell has the Centrino line and you could get a D800 with the widescreen (like Apples, but a little bigger - easily worth the money). That's what I am looking at personally.

Just for comparison, a 1.6 ghz P-M will perform about the same as a P IV 2.4 ghz, according to PC Mag. That's about as fast as you can get with those (they do have a 1.7).

I am typing this on a 8200 (15" screen, 1.7) and it's pretty nice. Nice screen, not too heavy.

That'd be my suggestion. Personally, I find screen space to be huge when designing in 3D.

 

Also, we never left the architecture building (UF and UCLA), so we never needed to move the computer. It's nice,but speed is more important at 4am than moving the computer. After all, she won't be living at home !

[xgarcia]

mbr:

 

You are a fellow UF undergraduate? What year? I just finished this last August (last minute electives). ummm....go gators?

[isagreg]

To bigcahunak:

RE:

Dell 5150

P IV 3.06

15" UXGA (that's upgraded)

512 mb ram

40GB hd

64 mb GeForce

XP Professional

CDRW/DVD

$1600 (after $250 mail-in rebate)

 

I was thinking to get one of those Dells. You think it is not really good option? Then what would you recommend for AutoCAD 2d/3d and Internet (wireless is not important)? I got very excited about 3GHz P4 but you're saying it'll be HOT.

[mbr]

isagreg -

 

What he's saying is that the P IV, the 'home' or workstation chip, is meant to run in a tower, not in the strict confines of a laptop. I don't believe Intel ever OK'd it to be used that way, even though many manufacturers chose to do it anyway.

The newer chips, the Pentium Modile, the Mobile P IV, Centrino (same as the P M, correct? - I think there is at least one other), are designed to accomodate a laptop by: 1. Running cooler, therefore not requiring the large fans of a tower, usually (I think) by stepping down in processor usage as heat increases and 2. by using less power, therefore utilizing the limitations of a portable battery.

 

xgarcia - Yeah, go Gators!! I was actually just invited to an alumni party to kick the season off, way out here in Ct. Kinda cool, but I haven't followed them in 6 years.

I graduated in '97. One of the best times I've had down there in Gainesville. Great place, great school.

Are you planning on grad school? Honestly, you won't find a better education than what you had there. I (and most of my friends - we easily dominated UCLA) went immediately on. A few went to Harvard, but most of us turned it down (if you look at their student work for the last 10 years, you'd see why most thought it a poor choice), as well as turning down Columbia (same thing, except they did great work - the best - until about '94 and then Maya took over).

 

So who'd you have? I've heard the Mario Gooden is no longer there? Is Rocky Hill still there? Great professors.

[schmoron13]

mbr, I'm applying to grad school right now for Architecture, and I'd love to hear your opinions on some schools.

 

I'm finding very little info on grad schools, specificially ones where you can enter the program WITHOUT an architectual background (I got a BA in music (jazz theory and composition) and minors in history and french)...

 

I've seriously considered Berkeley, Harvard and Columbia (and UCLA) but I was wondering about your (negative?) opinions on some of them....any advice, comments would be greatly appreciated..

 

-doron

 

Doron Serban

Computer Graphics

CUREE

1301 S. 46th Street

Richmond, CA 94804-4698

tel.: (510) 231-9557

fax.: (510) 231-5664

website: http://www.curee.org

[isagreg]

RE: "What he's saying is that the P IV, the 'home' or workstation chip, is meant to run in a tower, not in the strict confines of a laptop. I don't believe Intel ever OK'd it to be used that way, even though many manufacturers chose to do it anyway.

The newer chips, the Pentium Modile, the Mobile P IV, Centrino (same as the P M, correct? - I think there is at least one other), are designed to accomodate a laptop by: 1. Running cooler, therefore not requiring the large fans of a tower, usually (I think) by stepping down in processor usage as heat increases and 2. by using less power, therefore utilizing the limitations of a portable battery"

 

This is at Dell's web site: "Mobile Intel Pentium® 4 processor,3.06GHz,15in SXGA+". So is that P4 desktop processor? I thought it is "mobile P4"

Here is the link:

http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_rsf_i5150_4.htm

[xgarcia]

take about 7 degress of separation...

 

MBR:

 

This is who I had....

D1 - Perez

D2 - Luoni

D3 - Pohlman / Kuenstle (vicenza switch)

D4 - Luoni

D5 - Maze (new digital design professor - also a designer)

D6 - Clark

D7 - McCarter / Gunderson (vicenza switch)

D8 - Clark

 

Rocke Hill is still here (design and structures). Stephen Luoni left, he is director of Community Design Center at Arkansas University. Mario Gooden teaches at Columbia now. I think he's working with Steven Holl. Clark, Gunderson, Perez all still here. Bernie Voichysonk retired last year to a grand standing ovation and a full cover-to-cover Architrave dedication (30 some years teaching). The school has a new director, McCarter stepped down and is teaching again, as well as quite a few new professors (one from UCLA).

 

There is a new digital design class that includes FormZ. I learned Z but do not like it too much - too slow for my taste (viewport fps, UI navigation...). The professor of this course undertook an independent study with a couple of my classmates our senior year (last year) to see if Maya would be good for the school. I don't think UF will ever be a Maya school to be honest - unless all the old professors retire.

 

I'm taking 2 years off so my wife can finish the same major, degree - we met in Design1. After that, I'm not sure about grad schools. Have a year to think about it. Good to see a fellow UF SoA grad.

 

Schomoron13 - UF offers a CORE program in which you enter with any bachelors and come out with a 4 year Master's of Architecture. I think most school offer this type of masters of architecture and it is usually 1-2 years longer than a 2 year Masters.

 

[ August 27, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: xgarcia ]

[Ringas]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

bigcahunak: Turns out that the T40 might actually be a Centrino. What is this wireless part you mentioned? Network-wise they feature:

 

R40:Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, IEEE 802.11a/b

IBM 11 a/b WI-FI Wireless

 

T40:Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, Gigabit Ethernet, Bluetooth, IEEE 802.11b, IEEE 802.11a

 

Does that make any sense?

 

Regarding the screen size, she would like to use 1400x1050. Do you think that 0.9" would make such a big difference? Is 14.1" the true view size?(I have no idea whatsoever regarding laptops)

 

Tassos Ringas

National Technical University of Athens (N.T.U.A.)

Faculty of Architecture

archigrid@hotmail.com

[schmoron13]

thanks xgarcia,

 

I'm aware of some of the schools that have that option (usually 3.5 years)..how would you describe the UF program? pros, cons?

 

also, how does it rank nationally? if I graduate from there, but want to work on the west coast, do they have a good reputation?

[mbr]

XGarcia - Clark twice! Ha! No, not that she is that bad, but let's just say we didn't see eye to eye. I had her my last semester in Vicenza (man, that was soooo great!!) and I did not care too much about the class (I was already accepted to the schools of my choice- UCLA, Columbia, SciArc, and Berkeley, declined at Harvard, but I wan't expecting that, nor did it matter), but I did work my ass off and I liked my project.

Anyway, Kuestle was my first prof there, I think it was his first year. Man, he weeded out that class FAST!! I'd say that about 30% of the students made it through.

Looks like you had some good ones, though, that's what counts.

 

Didn't like FormZ, eh? Man, I think it's sooo much faster than Max, although I am getting quicker in Max and learning more about the modeling, etc. They began the FMZ class my last year. At UCLA it was split, Thom Mayne's side (that's where I was, I had him for studio and as a thesis advisor) was ONLY formz, no Maya, Greg Lynn's side was ONLY maya! Funny. I could go on and on about the crazy dynamics of the 'celebrity' architects, their power, etc.

 

Grad school, imho, is not needed too much for UF grads. You learn sooo much that grad school just becomes practice. It's great, don't get me wrong, but not necessary. For others it's essentail. I feel I really lucked out at UF, it was my third choice for undergrad and I only looked at it because my mother went there (and I was born in GVille). A great twist of fate, I think.

 

And, yes, it is good to see a fellow UF SoA! You'll find that we are respected at most of the top schools (UCLA loved us), it's a great feeling and something to be proud of! The camaraderie is nice and can go a long way for your future, or at least getting accepted to good schools.

 

 

Schmoron13 - I'd be happy to give you my nice, biased opinions on grad schools!

 

1. UCLA, of course, but I wouldn't say that it's best for those without experience. Still great, though, and you would have exposure to the BEST in the US. You really can see the dynamics of what is going on in the architecture world, not just your studio. The only other U that is at all like that is Columbia.

2. Harvard - not worth it, period. Architects will never make enough to justify the cost. If you're rich and want a pretty wall hanging, go for it. Schools can should be judge by what they help the students to become, first and foremost, and then the professors, and waaay down the line is the name. Harvard's students haven't done much in a long time (or last I saw the work was years ago, though). Some peope are going to not like this, but that's how I see it. If it cost $3k per year, maybe, but $30k??

3. Columbia - they offer good scholarships (at least for myself and all my friends that I spoke to), but it's still really expensive. Then there is the cost of living in NY, too. I am not sure where they are now, it always fluctuates, which school is doing what, but Columbia and UCLA have strong ties, so they are doing many of the same things.

4. MIT, Penn State, Yale, etc., haven't really been in the top for ages, but I am sure you'd get a very good education. That's all I really know, they aren't 'great', but I can't imagine they are bad, either. Princeton is there, too.

5. UF, well, it's a great place, but the grad school is not nearly as strong as the undergrad. Again, I am sure you'd have a great education, just may not be the best.

 

UF was ranked #4 in the country when I was there, grad school in the 30's.

 

But pay no attention to rankings. They are hugely biased and completely inaccurate. Berkeley has a fantastic undergrad, but their grad stinks (why I avoided it 'cause I would have loved SF), but they are ranked high. Harvard is ALWAYS #1 for grad. Read about how they rank, it's usually by what the employers would most likely want to higher, not who's making the most talented designers better.

 

Lastly, go to http://www.archinect.com , they've got a 'what is the best grad school in the US' thead going constantly (much to many's dismay), and you'll get lots of bs and lots of good info. You'll have to sort through it carefully.

 

If you have any other questions, let me know.

Oh, if you love football, UF is THE place!! Damn cheap, too.

[xgarcia]

mbr - I slacked my last semester as well (with Clark). I think I was a "little" burned out. This 2 yr. hiatus will fit me just fine. Check out my very old website I did for the digital design class 2 years ago. I've not updated it but there are some model pics there.

 

schmoron - UF must be one of the cheapest educations you can get. My last semester (undergard) tuition was $1400 USD. The grad school tuition isn't too much higher than that. I would say the best bang for your buck is UF or schools in Texas.

[schmoron13]

mbr,

 

YOU'VE WARPED MY FRAGILE LITTLE MIND!!!

 

man, that's way more than I expected. I was looking at harvard and Berkeley (admitedly cause of the name and rankings), but I realize now that I have to take a good long HARD look at WHY I should go somewhere. Up until this point, I kept hitting dead ends in terms of people pointing me in the "right" direction.

 

Is it just me, or do a lot of these schools' design studios look pretty amateurish in their graphical representations? not that I'm a pro, but a number of designs look just flat out bad (not in terms of architectonics, rather in the renderings)...

 

enough ranting, I'll definitely follow up on that link you sent...

 

thanks for the help, and I'll keep y'all informed (know how anxious everyone is to see where I end up )

[xgarcia]

Renderings were never a top priority inschool for me. I usually did them in 3-4 days tops and that was it on top of building crazy physical models for days on end. My Design 6 final model took 7 days, 18 hours a day.

 

 

 

 

 

Enjoy! Sorry for the watermark but you know...

Wasn't the topic about laptop processors?

[mbr]

XGarcia - nice stuff you've got there! You should put some more online when you get a chance. I love the models and miss those days... plexi, piano wire, basswood...great stuff.

 

I'd agree that UF is cheap, although I paid out of state. UCLA is pretty cheap, too, at about $3500 per year or so, but cost of living isn't (it's adjacent to Bel Air, Brentwood, and Beverly Hills - nice area).

 

Schmoron13 - glad I accomplished my little goal :ebiggrin: ! Just my opinions, so look around. Archinect can be a gret resource.

 

As for the renderings, while they may look basic, they usually are intended to look 'graphical', and not photo real. I don't think a prof would ever advocate trying to make it look that real. It eliminates some of the mystique, some of the raw beauty, and most importantly takes time away from designing.

Take a look at http://www.morphosis.net (that's Thom Mayne's site and his firm). They are some of the computer rendering pioneers, but you won't see photoreal anywhere. It's 'stylized' and meant to be 'theirs'.

Here's an example of what I would do, as I would never submit 'photoreal' to competitions. There is a balance in there somewhere that will continue to develop as the technology does. One significant reason is the time, of course.

The first is from my thesis (which I managed to get in 3D World a while back), the second from a competition I did with an classmate (we got an AIA Honorable mention for it :ebiggrin: )

[mbr]

Ha ha! Must of just missed your post! Love them! Man, how I miss making those great models! Was that for the NY trip? They really had it all thought out pretty well!

Are you planning on staying in architecture, or going more the CG route? Just curiuos, it's something that took a little fate and a lot of thought for me to make my decision (this is business, architecture is 'fun', at least for now).

 

Hehe, it looks like we've officially confiscated the 'Laptop' thread and made it a UF thread!

[xgarcia]

Originally posted by mbr:

...Was that for the NY trip? They really had it all thought out pretty well!

Are you planning on staying in architecture, or going more the CG route?...

Yes, that work is from the NY Trip. The program was an architecture school! I've thought once or twice about the 3D visualization field full time but I just don't have the guts to do it right now. I'm married with two toddlers and I've got a pretty good job with a firm already. 3D is something I do mostly for fun, did it in school, and at work when required. I stil have lots to learn and perfect before even thinking of going free lance full time. Not sure yet really. I'm taking it one day at a time.

 

Here is one more image. El-Croquis-esque serial progress.

 

 

[ August 27, 2003, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: xgarcia ]

[mbr]

Very nice. I wish I had my pictures from undergrad. I've got the finals, but we didn't have much access to computers so most of it never got scanned. Seeing the process is great and something that digital work cannot compete with. I do still have a tiny 1/32" of one of my favorite projects tucked away somewhere.

 

Hold onto your models, you'll appreciate them later on. I managed to keep one (Rocke's class). I spent close to $400 to ship it up here, unforutanely the other ones didn't survive the transport.

 

I can understand wanting stability. I chose to do the webdesign/3D in the hope that I can do much better than I could as an architect (at least for the first 10 years). So far it's been ok, but up and down. I think the potential for money is significantly better in CG than architecture, but you never know. So much of life is just luck and circumstance.

 

Here's that model, the photo was taken in front of the architecture building (you can see the stairs, I think), laying on the ground looking up. It's a big model, 1/4" I think.

 

Cheers.