New system questions

[markf]

I have purchased workstations in the past and I now plan to build my first system. I use 3DS Max, photoshop, premiere, illustrator, and ACAD. Based largely on a thread in this forum from the end of April I have put together a list of components for two different workstations. A dual AMD Athlon 2600 vs a dual Xeon 2.66. Cost difference is about $300 more for the Xeon. I plan on getting an nVidia 750 quadro videocard as well.

 

I am hoping that some of you hardware gurus can spare a moment to critique my list and offer any suggestions or alert me to any incompatibilities.

 

Some questions:

 

Fans:

-I speced fans and heat sinks for the Athlon but not for the Xeon. Both come with fan/heatsink. I was somehow under the impression that the fan/hs that comes with the Athlon are not desirable. True?

 

-The Supermicro motherboard has 4 fan connectors, the Chaintech 2. The case has 3 fans. Including the processors, I have 5 fans. Does one of the case fans connect only to power and is not connected to mboard?

 

Network:

-I have a network card in my existing workstation. I will want to network to my new machine. The supermicro MB has an on board Ethernet controller. Is this a wireless network device? Would a traditional network card better serve me? Will the board accept one?

 

USB:

-The case has 2 front USB ports. Supermicro MB advertises "up to 6 USB2.0 ports". The Chaintech "supports 4 USB2.0 ports." Am I correct in thinking I should be able to connect 2 to the front of the case and 2 to the back?

 

Software:

-I read a reference to some testing software called Memtest86 and Prime95. This is apparently run to test system after building it. Is this worthwhile/advisable?

 

-Currently I'm using Max 5 with W2K , I'm planning on upgrading to Max 6. Any word on using Max 5 and 6 with XP?

 

Links to the newegg wish lists are as follows

Xeon- Xeon

 

Athlon- Athlon

 

I very much appreciate any advice at all. This is my first attempt to build my own and I’m a bit apprehensive. It’s allot of hard earned coin on the line .

[Greg Hess]

Easy choice.

 

Xeon.

 

The Dual Athlons have ended their existence as AMD's primary workstation class cpu. Their now 2nd tier to the opteron systems.

 

This means going with a Dual Athlon will result in...

 

No AGP 8x

No USB2.0 (without a card)

No Serial ATA (without a card)

Limited upgradability (MP line is nearing its end)

Etc Etc. Bascially the 300 dollar price difference is worth it just for the newer board architecture.

 

I do realize that some dual athlon boards have these features...but these features are not inclusive within the actual chipset, but added on as additional onboard components. The Athlon AMD760MPX chipset is easily approaching its 2yr+ old date. The E7505 chipset is only a few months old.

 

Plus Xeon's are faster then Athlons when bucket rendering (not in standard max scanline usually though).

 

With a Xeon you'll want to run XP, so you can gain use of the secondary logical processors.

 

And yes, you always want to run the diagnosistic software after building a new machine. Eliminates countless hours of troubleshooting right off the bat.

 

The onboard ethernet card on the supermicro is a gigabit controller (1000mbit). Its not wireless.

 

You can plug fans directly into the power supply, as well as the board.

 

You need a front mounted usb port in the case to make use of it. Just because the board supports it, doesn't mean the case will have it.

 

Is this the first system you've ever built? If so, you might want to make sure someone nearby you (friend) who has some experience is available in case you run into problems.

 

Building a computer is simple. Its getting it to work thats hard.

[xgarcia]

Greg,

 

Just out of curiosity - do you "burn" in new systems once you've built and stablized them? I remember reading a while back at hardocp that once you're up and running to run Prime95 for like 24 hours or so to "burn" in the cpu. Any thoughts on this and also what tests do you run if any?

 

Xavier

 

PS...wish I could ($$$) upgrade my 1900XP!

[Jennifer]

Hi Greg,

 

So Win2k doesn't support the hyper-threading in the Xeon?

[xgarcia]

Only XP supports Hyper Threading.

[Jennifer]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the info. I only use XP, but that's good to know.

[Greg Hess]

Hey xgarcia,

 

I usually construct a system exterior to the case, mounting the heatsink/fan, and attaching a single (or dual for DCDDR) dimms and a single video card...hook up the machine, and boot immediately into the bios.

 

Then I watch the cpu temps, and keep an eye on them (making sure there well within the green range)...

 

Then I run a memtest for a pass or two. (Sometimes I'll go work on something else and let her run for a good couple of hours).

 

Come back, put everything in the case, install the OS, run 3dmark 2001 SE loops and Sisoft Sandra Burn in's. Usually around 4 hours of testing/burnin before I consider a system stable.

 

Considering most of the machines I build for the department are used for basic wordprocessing, its kinda of overkill, but I feel that a computer shouldn't crash...otherwise you won't ever rely on it.

 

On systems that are super mission critical (like dna analysis machines) [Can take weeks per run] I'll do a memtest for 8 hours, and usually do burnins for 2 days.

 

Artic silver usually takes 48-72 hours to undergo its phase change...so that helps speed up that process as well.

 

Jennifer,

 

Win2k does support Hyperthreading, but only for single processor Pentium IV's. If you move to a Dual CPU system, you have to use Windows 2000 Server, Windows XP Professional, and Windows 2003 Server if you want hyperthreading support.

[xgarcia]

About the burn-in's...good to know Greg.

 

I stand corrected on the Win2k HT question!

 

Xavier

[Greg Hess]

You weren't really incorrect...just different wording thats all.

 

Win2k DOESN'T support hyperthreading because it sees both the logical and the physical processor in an HT CPU as two physical cpu's. (For purposes of counting towards the 2 cpu limitation) So in a Dual Xeon System you would either have....

 

1) Under Windows 2000 SP2 the System would detect the first physical and then the first logical cpu...and disable both the secondary physical and logical cpu...as the 2cpu limit would have already been hit. (This causes a MASSIVE performance hit)

 

2) Under Windows 2000 SP3 the System would detect two logical and two physical cpu's and disable the logical cpu's, as its past the 2 cpu limitation of the OS license.

 

Windows XP DOES support hyperthreading because it can differentiate between a logical cpu and a physical cpu, and doesn't count the logical cpu's towards the 2 cpu limitation of Windows XP Professional.

[Jennifer]

Hi,

 

Thanks, that makes sense! I haven't used Win2K in a while, but several associates of mine are stuck in 2K. It's good to know. The BIOS should let you turn hyperthreading off, though, giving you the two CPUs you need.

 

In a dual CPU system do you see much benefit in leaving hyperthreading enabled? I've done some tests with mine and haven't really seen a difference in overall performance, and I tend to do about 12 things at once. In a single CPU system I can see the great advantage, of course.

 

Thanks again!

[Greg Hess]

Hey Jennifer,

 

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79553

 

Just answered that question in this Cgtalk thread.

 

Depending on what your doing...it can be upwards of 25%+ faster.

[markf]

Greg,

 

Thanks for the info! Your expertise and knowledge seem to be unequaled, and I appreciate your taking the time to reply to a hardware unsophisticate such as myself.

 

This whole idea of running the tests and "burn-in" seems a bit daunting. Your advice that "putting one together is easy but getting one to work is hard" is well taken. Because of this I'm getting cold feet. There isn't really anyone around here that could help me. Perhaps I could contact a computer consultant in a regional town.

 

I may end up spending the, I would guess $1,0000 (ouch), extra for a Boxx. I wonder if they do all of this "crash proofing" when they build.

[Jennifer]

Hi Greg,

 

Thanks again for the info. The cgtalk thread was interesting, too.

[Greg Hess]

Mark,

 

Building computers isn't too bad...especially if your going with a P4/Xeon platform. (Hella lot easier to mount the heatsinks). But I usually tend to recommend having someone nearby who knows machines available to help, in case you run into trouble.

 

You could as always just post your problems on cgarchitect and I'd be happy to help. But as you know there is only so much troubleshooting you can do at a distance.

 

Generally burn in isn't necessary. Its just one of those things you do if you can afford the time, to insure that the system will perform beyond an average consumer machine.

 

Boxx won't ship a system without testing it first. If your interested in comparing direct price quotes, just price one out at boxx...and I'll see if I can get ya a deal.

 

As for unequaled tech knowledge...ha! Thanks for the compliment but I still have much to learn .

[markf]

Greg,

 

Thank you for the encouragement I'm now leaning towards buying direct but haven't made up my mind.

 

I'm going to check around to see if anyone regional has any experience in this area. I am grateful for your offer to trouble shoot through the forum here but well understand how difficult long distance typed trouble shooting can be.

 

In the meantime I priced a Boxx. The only real difference is the Boxx includes a 750 quadro video card. If I take that out it's about $1,250 more than my build your own configuration. Here's the link BOXX-Xeon

[Greg Hess]

Hey Mark,

 

Try emailing me the quote.

 

crossbow@3dluvr.com

 

Ya you'll always pay a price premium going with an already built system then a self built one. Difference is...you have to support your own system...were as if you bought it from a vendor, their the ones doing the support.

 

Then of course if you've been supporting your own machines by yourself...that isn't as important as it would be for some.