ecastillor Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 I ve been lookin to buy a new laptop...not gonna be my main computer but it will be used for some 3d work and Photopshop mostly.... Saw some VAIO and Toshiba....the specs are enough for my needs. P4 3.33 1 GB Ram 100 GB HD 128 MB Video (shared)?? And like I said...have the main machines at the office, so this will not be a main modelling or rendering machine so the specs are enough for the price... The only thing that stands out is the Video memory...how will it affect the fact that its "Shared"??? Its slower than a normal videocard? Wich brand do you recommend for 3d work between the two?? Thanx in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Those are both good brands but I'd stay away from shared memory - a normal video card has its own memory controller and its own memory, but shared memory cards access system memory instead. This has two effects - the 128mb is subtracted from your available memory in Windows, and the video card's access to the memory is slower, which degrades performance. Even without going to something like a Precision with a Quadro or FGL, you can get a consumer laptop with a pretty good video card, Geforce series or Radeon 9000 or x600 series for example, with dedicated 64 or 128mb memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael-k Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 And go for at mobile processor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecastillor Posted July 3, 2005 Author Share Posted July 3, 2005 ok....so I can also get a dell machine, about the same price, but with an independent video card 256MB NVIDIA GeForce Go 6800 and a 17" inch screen, and since ill be doing graphic work i dont mind to carry a bigger machine. The rest its pretty much the same as the toshiba, except the processor... The toshiba is a pentium 4 Ht 3.33 ghz and the dell is a Pentium M 760 2 ghz...so i dont know the difference between them...which is better.....does the fact that the pentium is 3.33 ghz make it faster? or its a different technology.... please help, i need to think this investment through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 The Dell's graphics will beat the heck out of anything with shared memory. The processor queestion is a bit tricky. The Pentium M does outperform a P4 Mobile of the same clock speed, it's actually a really fast chip - see http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050525/pentium4-10.html and click through to more pages for an interesting comparison based on using an adapter to put PM chips on desktop motherboards then benchmarking them against desktop Intel and AMD chips - a PM 770 2.13GHz got the same score on 3DSMax encoding as an Athlon64 3500 and outperformed a P4 3.4GHz! And did it using a lot less power. (The PM chips giving the ridicuously high performance are overclocked, which you won't be doing in a laptop.) Where the P4 with hyperthreading is going to outperform the PM is when you're running 2 things at once - it's more efficient at multithreading, as the name implies. Given the choice between the machines you're talking about, I think the Dell is the clear winner - the CPUs will have similar performance but the Dell's will use less power, and the Dell video card wins hands down over anything using shared memory. Caveat is, Dells seem to be a bit more troublesome than some other brands. (Find me somebody with an Inspiron 8200 DVD/CDRW drive that didn't break...) So make sure you have a decent warranty. One other thing to consider - would a Dell Precision M70 fit in your budget? That one comes with a Quadro FX 1400 256MB standard, for 3DSMax use it just mops the floor with the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisHolland Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 For what the Dell option matters... the only thing that is cool, is the 17" screen on the M series. For the rest it's a 'not so trustworthy' machine compared to the Dell Inspiron Multimedia advanced laptop series with a 15.4" screen but with P4 dual HT, a 3.4 > 3.6 Ghz processor and a max of 2 Gb ram. Together with a 256 vid card it's a super workhorse when you're on the road (speaking as an owner of one of them). I also suggest to go to the alienware.com website because they are offering the 'fastest and most reliable' laptop ever build this week. Maybe check that one out as well? Take care, Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecastillor Posted July 3, 2005 Author Share Posted July 3, 2005 Wow dennis! thanx a lot for the info....that sure gonna help me make my choice.... You wouldnt belive it if i told you I seemed to know more about computers than the guy at the toshiba telemarketing....thats why I came her for help... thanx again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisHolland Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Yeah Eduardo... Those guys out there are not exactely Einsteins but hey...they need a job just like we all do I'd say go for the Aliens. build by gamers for gamers. I'm not a gamer at all (never played one in my life to be honest, execpt for that smashing penguin on this side a couple of months ago) but what i know is that us viz-guys use the same tools Enjoy your shopping... Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Nelson Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 And then you have Sager. http://www.sagernotebook.com/index.html I hear there are a lot of similarities between Sager, Alienware, and Boxx, but I think Sager will give you the best deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Yeah Eduardo... Those guys out there are not exactely Einsteins but hey...they need a job just like we all do I'd say go for the Aliens. build by gamers for gamers. I'm not a gamer at all (never played one in my life to be honest, execpt for that smashing penguin on this side a couple of months ago) but what i know is that us viz-guys use the same tools Enjoy your shopping... Dennis Not exactly the same, and I don't think the Alienware is the right machine in this case. Alienware appears to have 2 lines now - Centrino machines with "Intel Extreme Graphics" (which is an amost entirely useless video card with shared memory, and makes this line useless for 3D modeling) and a line of laptops with higher end hardware and the desktop versions of the P4 processors, which consumes so much power and is so large and heavy that it's very impractical as a portable. Here's a good comparison between Alienware, BOXX and Dell "workstation" laptops, the gist of it is Alienware and BOXX outperform Dell in most areas, but the Dell is smaller and lighter with much better battery life. http://www.cgnetworks.com/story_custom.php?story_id=2932&page= You might not be looking at the Precision line, but it's still useful for comparison - the other Dells that have Pentium M CPUs and Geforce video will perform similarly but with less performance in the 3DSMax user interface, similar rendering performace and similar battery life. Since you said you're not looking for a main render box but rather for something portable, go with the best Pentium M machine that fits your budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecastillor Posted July 3, 2005 Author Share Posted July 3, 2005 Thanx Andrew and dennis....Im ready to place my order now....Ill post comments on how it went! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecastillor Posted July 3, 2005 Author Share Posted July 3, 2005 And then you have Sager. http://www.sagernotebook.com/index.html I hear there are a lot of similarities between Sager, Alienware, and Boxx, but I think Sager will give you the best deal. Ill check them out...the thing is that i dont know if they are availabe in mexico....i can order the for sure, but dont know about service... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisHolland Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Andrew is right about the Dell inspiron/precision line that is in their list of available laptops right now. I've checked the DELL.nl site for that so my referral for the Inspiron Multimedia advanced 9100 P4 HT - 3.4 Ghz with 2 Gb ram and the ATI Mobility radeon 256 mb vid card that we're running on since three months is not available anymore, all centrino there... Therefore i appologize for any trouble, caused by me, and I sincerely hope that none of you guys attending the cga-party the 3th of august will try to throw my humble little person right of the 5th floor in downtown LA? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Hola Eduardo, I have a Dell Multimedia XPS laptop which followed the 9100. It has the 3.4 GHz with 2gb ram and the ATI 256. I purchased this machine under the advice of the people that helped me with the presentation. The machine was about $3,900.00 on April of this year. I also have a Toshiba 2 GHz and Sager 2 GHz. This Dell I find it slow when compared to the Toshiba. I know this remark makes no sense but I don't think it is a great machine. It is an average machine. However, I bought it with one purpose in mind, a Power Point presentation for our company. The graphics are incredibly good. The presentation for which I bought was an incredible success. Would I buy another Dell......? ABSOLUTELY NO, UNDER NO CONDITIONS. Dell failed on their promise for delivery by 1.5 months. They duplicated the order. I realized they duplicated the order before they shipped, called while the machine was still in their plant. They told me they couldn't fish out the duplicate. They did the shipment and instructed me to refuse delivery of the 2nd unit and everything would be OK. Dell said UPS was instructed to send back the machine. UPS refused to return the machine unless I paid $120.00. Dell got mad at me.... the machine sat on the UPS depot for a month. Dell duplicated the charges on my credit card. It took two months to get my money after getting an attorney to write a "Dear Dell" letter. During this time I talked with the customer service center in Tennessee, India and Panama. Thank to the Lord I speak Spanish. Most of the Indian people I talked with couldn't speak very clear English. The Panamanian where friendly but not too effective. Except for one older gentleman called Richard who felt sorry and gave me the name of an executive in Austin, TX. This executive, a lady was good, but even after talking with her it took a month to get any action. Now I am concern that if the machine breaks I will have to deal with the Indian customer center. No offense to the Indian community. They are intelligent and highly educated people but the ones at Dell - India should learn English before they are placed behind the phone. The ATI video card is good for gamers but no good for 3D. My Solidworks and Viz run slower on the Dell than on the older Toshiba..... Amazing..... I would get a Quadro video card if I were you. I have been traveling international..... This laptop is not a laptop.... it is a darn portable computer and a slow one. My business partner was upset at the investment on the laptop for just one presentation. When we traveled through Europe and he had to drag the laptop he immediately told me that I should get another Toshiba.... He said....."We are too old for this thing” It runs hot and the power supply is about two pounds. Some of these trips to Europe only allow one carry on article..... We had: 1. The projector, 2. The laptop, 3. The camera 4. The business papers. On an occasion I refused to check in my $20,000.00 worth of equipment on the baggage compartment. A lady from a cruise boat had occupied the overhead compartment with TWO $15.00 straw hats from Mexico. The flight attendant refused to negotiate with the lady because she was boarded first. She DEMANDED that I should send my carry on to the belly of the plane. I said NO WAY and that she should send her hats to the belly. The captain wanted to leave the gate, the Delta attendant understood this as a refusal to fly a perfect plane. The boarding agent called the police and they escorted me to the door of the Atlanta airport. Now I will not buy Dell nor I will fly with Delta, which by the way has a monopoly in Atlanta. I had to go the next day to Montreal via Dallas and had to pay for another ticket all because the darn computer was too big for the regional jet that Delta flies to Canada. Now I fly Air Canada or Transat. I hope Delta gets an attitude re-adjustment. On the other hand, the presentation went fine, every time I do the presentation I get standing ovation.... However, if you are planing to use it primarily for Viz, I would buy a different computer. Gamer software work better on ATI but that's not the case with rendering software. I am about to buy another laptop for Viz and SolidWorks. I want something small and fast (I don't think the Dell is fast). My experience with Sager (4 machines) was not good. I am now looking on Allienware which I think is an undercover Sager.... Who knows maybe Sager is a good machine now. Summary: 1. The machine is not all that bad, just slow and heavy 2. Too big 3. Dell service is horrible... you talk from computer to computer My experience may be very unique but it was so bad that I will NEVER BUY from Dell. One last thing, the gamer - multi-media laptops come with a decorative cover on the top. They didn't advise me of that. The computer brought a leopard skin cover that looks like if it was the product of psycho bar with go-go girls of the 1970's... Every time I pull the thing out of my brief case on our very serious meetings, people take a look at the laptop they laugh and ask where is this thing from #$^%#&^%#*. The keyboard is not very ergonomic. Good Luck Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecastillor Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 On an occasion I refused to check in my $20,000.00 worth of equipment on the baggage compartment. A lady from a cruise boat had occupied the overhead compartment with TWO $15.00 straw hats from Mexico. The flight attendant refused to negotiate with the lady because she was boarded first. She DEMANDED that I should send my carry on to the belly of the plane. I said NO WAY and that she should send her hats to the belly. The captain wanted to leave the gate, the Delta attendant understood this as a refusal to fly a perfect plane. The boarding agent called the police and they escorted me to the door of the Atlanta airport. Now I will not buy Dell nor I will fly with Delta, which by the way has a monopoly in Atlanta. I had to go the next day to Montreal via Dallas and had to pay for another ticket all because the darn computer was too big for the regional jet that Delta flies to Canada. Now I fly Air Canada or Transat. I hope Delta gets an attitude re-adjustment. this sounds straight out of a movie!!! Did you see "meet the parents"? with ben stiller? the plane incident reminded me a lot of that movie.... Thanx for the advice...now you got me thinking again.... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Eduardo, No I have not seen the movie. I tell you, NEVER AGAIN FROM DELL. I build my own workstations and have a lot of fun. I heard there is some one on the web selling components so you can customize and build your own laptop machine. I am looking for these people. I will seriously think about it. Not everything went wrong. The presentation works great... But basically I am having to dedicate the laptop to the presentation.... I can run the 3D software but I think it is slow. I also use the laptop when I take the digital cameras and it works good as an editor with Nikon Capture 4.3 and Adobe Photoshop. Buena Suerte..... Good Luck Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecastillor Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Ok...one last question... People at HP tell me that for 3d work, im better of with a P4 HT 3.0 ghz, than a centrino...but ill loose power faster...since centrino is designe for portability rather than horsepower... i dont care that much about battery life as I do about 3d performance...is this true? I almost get the same price for a HP than a DELL with the same specs...which one do you recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Eduardo, One of my architects bought a Cetrino based machine. That thing is good for basic functions. Everytime you load a heavy duty software the machine becomes very slow. One thing I noticed is that it boot up inmediately. My machine will take about 1.5 to 2 minutes to boot up. Saludos Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisHolland Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Eduardo, for all HP related questions you should PM severegwar. Get in touch and he'll tell you all you need to know about the performance of the newest HP laps compared to others. Good luck, Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Eduardo, I have a BOXX p4 3.6 Ghz laptop w/ Nvidia 256 graphics that was purchased for VIZ work / ADT a couple of months ago. The full power HT processor is a big benefit in speed, but it does eat power to the extent that the battery act mostly as a ups for when the power goes out. Also - if you will be working in 2 locations (work and then home) do yourself a favor and buy a second power supply so you don't have to haul it back and forth. The power supply alone is the weight of a small child. The best part though is bein able to keep my coffee warm by strategically placing the cup on the side where the cooling fans blow the heat through. I like the HP's - just bought my wife a notebook for school with the same beatiful screen (albeit half the size) as the BOXX. Good Luck! Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecastillor Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 Dean, Elliot, and dennis...thanx a lot..finally made up my mind and went for the HP... even thought the DELL seemed an atractive choice, the upgrades made it to go through the roof!!! the price here in mexico for 1 GB extra ram, its about 1,400 USD ..I couldnt Believe it, and for the HP, it was no more than 200 USD, so that was a no brainer... they explained that in order to keep costs down , dell will offer you a motherborad with a 1 gb capability,and since they have to replace the motherboard to hold the extra ram, that makes the price skyrocket...that and the fact that HP has a service center here in Monterrey, and Dell is a only by phone thing. and I wouldnt what to live Elliot's story anyway....thaxs to all of you for the advice...you sure were more help than all of their call center "experts" put together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Eduardo, Great selection....! I am laughing at Dean's comments..... So that's how your coffe mug gets warm..... Get two power supplies so you don't have to carry the PS that is as heavy as baby. Good idea.... I have twins......! Leave one at home and the other at the office.....! He he he he he LOL LOL I also have triplets.... can you imagine the posibilities....: 1. One at home 2. One at the office 3. One at the factory 4. One at my favorite customer's office What should I do about the Fifth one.....? He he he he he My Dell is slow.... sometimes I think that the Dell is OK. The problem is that I keep comparing it with the Dual Opterons 252, the 4 Seagates at 15,000rpm on a Raid system, 8Gb of Ram and many other goodies.... Anything compared to the workstation will be slow.... But in reality the Dell is just OK, not great but OK for most of the things I do when I leave the office. I will NEVER AGAIN deal with the lousy customer service I got from Dell. I even sent an EMail to Mike Dell which of course I never got a response. I had a dream of suing Mike Dell, winning the case and then asking the judge for no money..... the payment would be to have Mike Dell buy a laptop from his own company without them knowing it was him on the other side of the line......! I still think he would suffer a lot from that painfull experience. Enjoy the Machine Buena Suerte - Good Luck Elliot PD: Dean... your response should go on to some kind of historic responses published on CG Architect. You really have made me laugh.... anybody that has one of these power supplies would understand. Recently, at an airport the security guard said to me.... I would never show that PS to my wife....! He he he he I still not sure of what he meant.... He he he he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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