bigcahunak Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Dont know too much about LCDs, even though I started thinking about the 191T myself,but... As far as I know your GF3 doesnt support DX9. Dont know if it's going to help in any way, but just thought to mention it. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Xavier, Thanks for the incredible information. I wish everyone had videos of the crap that was going wrong. Would be so much easier to diagnose . I have seen that EXACT same flickering once before...and only once before. On a viewsonic vg191b 19 inch LCD...attached to a geforce3 ti 200. The exact same thing happens, at the exact same point. I never found a solution. Unlike your situation (where the flickering seems to occur at other points), in this particular case it only occured during bootup. (at the win2k screen). Because of this I never addressed the problem, as the computer was probably restarted once a week and it didn't annoy the professor at all. As for the other flickering...I wonder if its card related. It soundsl like you've already tried a bunch of different driver sets. Have you tried running it through analog? (Just to compare). As per the dead pixels. I have a similar one thats only noticable on a black background. I've seen FAR worse so I didn't decide to pursue a replacement. Its up to you though. If you think it will be annoying...replace it. No use having something you'll have to stare at probably over 40 hours a week thats going to annoy you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Thx for the replies fellas. I woke up this morning and realized that each time after I formatted and installed win2k - I didn't get the flickering and hanging until I installed the Nvidia Detonator drivers. So I guess it would be safe to say that my video card is obsolete for this monitor or the drivers are not supporting my card with this monitor. I was unaware that the GeForce3 Ti500 was not supported by DirectX 9. Where can I find a list of card supported for DirectX 9? I thought microsoft always released DirectX that is backwards compatible. I always installed it before with my Trinitron and this never happened. I'm going to try the analog cable to see it it fixes anything, but what is the point of running the 191T without DVI? I'll keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Xavier, The use of the hd15 cable was only for diagnositic purposes. I just want to see if it solves/mimicks issues found with the DVI-I connector. Dx9 is backwards compatible. Your card just doesn't support any dx9 features...nor does it fully support all dx8 features. So installing dx9 will work...it just won't let your card magically start supporting hardware effects that it doesn't support by default. Have you tried an OLDER driver? I've found that with the older video cards, newer drivers usually aren't as stable and can/may have issues. Try the 21.83 WHQL driver set. Its what I use on the Quadro DCC (geforce3) running one of the 191T's on the Dual Athlon. Here's a link to those drivers to try. http://download.guru3d.com/detonator/ Keep hitting next page till you see 21.83 WHQL. Or just hit page 8 and scroll down . See if that helps. (Make sure to remove the old drivers BEFORE installing the new ones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Greg, I know you meant for testing purpose - I was just stating "why run it without DVI" as disappointment. I'd rather not run it analog to make it stable. Ok...I'm going to test with the analog cable now. Then I will put the DVI back on and revert to the 21.81 detonators. Is there really nothing wrong with running older drivers (2 years old in this case)? Maybe I'll just buy myself a 980 xgl and say fug-it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 21.83 WHQL!!!!!! Don't get 21.81 . And I wouldn't dare have you run just on the analog. It looks HORRIBLE in comparison. I just want to see if it happens with the analog cable. Thats all. If so, it could be a cabling issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 opps...I meant 21.83 - that's the one I downloaded. Well, I'm on analog now and no flickering occur at the usual spots (boot-up and Geforce advanced dipsplay tab). Analog looks crappy btw. Gonna reboot one more time to make sure (I installed the samsung analog driver for runing in analog btw - I'll switch back to DVI when I go DVI again). Going back to DVI with 21.83 WHQL.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 *crosses fingers* Ya analog looks like donkey dung. Really lets you appreciate DVI-I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Got the same flicker (although less) at boot up screen and UI load. Shall I keep trying the next versions up the ladder of Detonator Drivers? ---------------------------- Greg, The flickering only begins with the installation of the Detonator driver. If I run in VGA compatible mode, there is no flickering even if using the DVI cable. Does this mean that I need new video card to run flawlessly? Just for thoroughness sake here is my setup: - Athlon XP 1900+ (Thermalright SLK 800) (running at 1600 mhz - no overclock) - Asus A7V266-E motherboard (CMEDIA onboard sound, RAID, ATA 100) - (2) Crucial 512 MB PC2100 SDRAM Dimms (non-ecc) - PNY Verto GeForce3 Ti500 64MB - Linksys 10/100 LAN Card (LNE100TX v.2.0) - (2) 40.0 GB Western Digital ATA100 7200 rpm HDD's - Plextor PlexWriter 12/10/32A - floppy disk (can't get my cd-rom to boot from CD so I use boot disks) - Enlight 7327 case - Microsoft Intellimouse Optical (using latest Intellipoint software) [ August 22, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: xgarcia ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 I think I can put up with the boot flicker b/c I can always upgrade my video card in a couple of months (no cash now for it). I just want to make sure it's not the monitor or the DVI connector cable that is defective. I have no way of testing it on another DVI port since I have only this card and I don't know anyone in Gainesville with DVI port vid card. Any more suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Not right now...but I need to go over the data you gave me when I have some time to look at it. (I'm at work now so can only answer questions off the top of my head). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 in case this helps, this is what my dvi port looks like on the geforce3: Thanks so much for your help so far Greg. I really appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Greg, Marc, Dave, and other 191T users: I've been experiencing some annoying problems with my new 191T. I've captured some video with my digicam to better explain (ignore or turn down the sounds - my wife was watching a movie). 1. win2k-boot-screen.mpg (7.2 megs) ----edit: I took down the video for need of webspace, sorry ---- The first time I saw this was after installing the monitor to my system. Well, I figured why not do a complete format, since my system was due for it anyhow, to see if it fixes the problem. So I format and fresh install win2k pro. I update win2k to Service Pack 4, DirectX 9 , IE 6.1, and nvidia's 44.03 driver (the latest 45.23 was hanging at win2k login and once I did log in it hung for a minute or two, then also trying to access advanced display properties). 2. nvigeforce3-ti500-tab.mpg (706 kb)----edit: I took down the video for need of webspace, sorry ---- This flicker and hang seems to always happen whenever I click on my GeForce3 Ti500 tab (where you go change vsync and all that stuff) in the advanced display properties dialog. Any clues as to why this would happen? The only thing I could think of is that my Geforce3 Ti500 is over 2 years old and maybe the DVI port is damaged, old, or maybe has dust inside? I never used the DVI port up until now, having always used the analog VGA connector with my Trinitron. The trinitron never exhibited this erratic behavior. But these flickers and hangs also happen randomly. But it always mad flickers at the win2k boot screen and it flicker-hangs at the GeForce3 Ti500 advanced properties tab. Any ideas? Shall I do an RMA back to the dealer? I have about 20 days left to do so. Also this might just be picky but I did notice a dead pixel (or maybe sub-pixel), but only when the desktop background is black. Acutally I noticed two tiny spots - one being brighter than the other. But unless the black desktop is on, I don't notice them. Here is a picture (hard to photograph b/c dot is so much brighter to my eye). ----edit: I took down the jpegs for need of webspace, sorry ---- Please any advice...bad drivers? I've formatted twice now to see if I can get it to work flawlessly as it should. Do you guys experience any flickers and hangs as I have? Thanks. [ September 30, 2003, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: xgarcia ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 xavier, Whats your bios version for the asus board? (motherboard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Current bios version is 10.04B. I know there is a latest 10.11 that supports Athlon XP 2600, but I've not flashed the bios version. I don't think it's necessary right? I flashed the bios that shipped with the board to fix some sound issues a couple month after I built the system, but that was 2 years ago. Here is the link to the board's Asus driver's page: http://www.asus.com/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=A7V266-E [ August 22, 2003, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: xgarcia ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Hey Greg, I have a frend coming back for school this week and he just happens to have a Geforce4. I'm going to test the monitor on his card. Does it matter that he is using XP rather than win2K (what I use)? I'll let you know what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Nope. Will be a good test. My other suggestion is a bios update. Also check the card manufacterer for a firmware update to that specific card...to see if one is available to fix your particular problem. Thats all I have for right now. If I think of something else I'll post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Hi Greg, Thanks for responding. I hope I'm not bothering you with all these question. In case you didn't catch it yey, I'm a bit of a perfectionist! :ebiggrin: No firmware from PNY's site. Their support search is limited to FAQ's and the drivers sections points to Nvidia's reference drivers. Now that I remember, I've not flashed the mobo bios since I built the system. I have flashed my laptop and another desktop, so I do have some experience with BIOS flashing (not a complete newb). For some reason I can not find how to do it with win2k and my specific mobo: http://www.asus.com/support/english/techref/bios/index.aspx This page explains how to flash, but I can not for the life of me figure out how to boot into DOS with win2k. Is this possible? I thought there was no more DOS with win2000. I also searched the Asus website and found a utility called EZ-Flash but my board does not seem to have it, which sucks b/c it would make it so easy to flash (no pun intended). -------Steps I've tried fo far------ 1. Make first floopy boot disk (1 of 4) from Win2K CD - copy aflash.exe to it. Doesn't work. Jumps straight to win2K setup (blue screen of setup). 2. Try to run AFlash.exe from command line inside Win2K. Doesn't work. Can't run in protected mode. 3. Copy AFlash.exe to formated floppy - reboot - Doesn't work b/c it is not a bootable disk. Thx for your patience Greg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Xavier... www.bootdisk.com There is a Dr somebody flashing disk. You can download this, run it, it'll format a bootable floppy, copy the bios rom and aflash to it..va la. (Then just boot to the floppy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Thanks Greg. You da man. I flashed it succesfully but the flicker is still there. So we know now it's either the monitor / cable or the Geforce3? Hopefully my friend will get into town tonight. I'll be hijacking his box for a couple hours. Until then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Xavier, At least on a side note, your system will support newer processors, and probably sped up your boot time and increased performance slightly . Ya I'm running low on options myself. Cable/card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 *bump* Incidentally, I was wondering what video cards you owners/users of the Samsung 191T, or any LCD using DVI, are using (PC only - no MACs Cesar! :winkgrin: ) Still waiting on my pal with the GF4 to test... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 I'm using a Quadro 900XL and a Geforce4 Ti 4400. Machines at work using LCD's have... Either Geforce4 Ti 4200's, or Geforce 5200 FX's (no need for performance video cards). There is one Geforce3 ti running a Vg191B viewsonic which has similar problems to what you have shown and described. Unfortuantly that individual does no 3d work whatsoever, so its never been an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 Thx Greg, If I were to order today - between these two which one? - Gainward Ti4600 Dual-DVI ($195 USD) *edit (I think they ran out of stock on these, page no longer works)* - Gainward GeForce FX5600 Ultra 256MB Dual-DVI ($199 USD) In other words - which is the better upgrade from GeForce3 for 3D. I remember reading somewhere the FX line is not much of increase from the GF4s. I do not do 3D full time so buying Quadro (4 or FX) will not return the investment. Thanks for the help thus far Greg. Really appreciate it. And sorry to keep bugging you - but know one else is chatting!! [ August 30, 2003, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: xgarcia ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 ok...tested on a Radeon 9700, WinXP. No flicker. Has to be my geforce3. I guess I can live with it for now and just save up for good 3D card down the road. Thanks for the help Greg. Was a good bit of fun trouble shooting with you. peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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