Help me tool up and learn to render...from scratch

[Gaze]

Greetings,

 

My first post...here goes:

I'm seeking advice on hardware/software/documentation purchases to get started in creating and rendering 3D models. Mainly I'm interested in smaller scale architectural subjects (exteriors and interiors).

 

Maybe the best way to ask is: If you had to start all over today, what hardware/software would you buy to do arch. models? Probably I will be starting with AutoCad 2D plans and taking them to 3D, but I'm open to modelling in other software if there are big advantages.

 

A family member is recovering from surgery and medical treatments here (so. Cal) and I'm on family leave for several weeks helping out. I should have a good deal of time to dive in and begin studying. I just don't know the best approach to get started. I'm hoping to avoid expensive mistakes by getting your opinions up front. I realize I'm getting into a costly undertaking,... I would sure welcome any deals you know of regarding purchases.

 

I really need some mentors! I'm a good listener, diligent learner and very much inspired. Please help me out as I stumble along.

 

I'm open to any and all opinions and debate. What's good, what's bad.

Will answer if you have any questions.

 

Thanks

[mbr]

You'll need to dive into the tutorials that come with the program, maybe think about a video or book (some of the videos are pretty good these days).

 

Then it's practice, practice, practice.

 

3D Studio: most popular (for now), but most expensive

Viz: like 3ds, but limited

 

Cinema 4D XL: growing in popularity,

cheaper, modular purchases

rendering plugins are now available for it, so quality will be as good as anything

 

Maya: more geared towards Hollywood

but great videos and reasonable cost

 

 

They are all just tools, though, so there is no 'right' answer. If you are paying for it, I'd think about Cinema and a rendering plugin. If not, probably Max.

[JamesTaylor]

i'd say the most common methods are modelling in autocad (majority of architects us it for plans anyway) then link the model across into max / viz and texture light and animate before rendering.

 

on rendering i'd say that 3rd party render engines are most popular at the moment, the likes of vray, mental ray, and maxwell

[Bugga_Guy]

If I would jump into 3d not knowing it at all (for small architecture projects), my first software of choice would be sketchup. It is far the most easy 3d application to learn and it can be fairly accurate.

 

Once I would be comfortable in modeling sketch up, I would branch into something like 3ds max/viz - and start to import models from sketchup into max learn to apply texutres and lighting, and at the same little by little learn how to model in max.

[mwhite]

I would agree with the above posts. Here is the path that I took when I started from the beginning two years ago.

 

For hardware, I started with a junky PIII bought at CompUSA. I trashed the stupid Windows Millenium Edition OS and put AutoCAD 2000 on and added some RAM to get it to 512. It is slow, but the most stable machine that I have had and a killer workhorse.

 

After I got paid for a few jobs, I purchased a 2.6 Pentium from a local supplier and had nothing but problems and it was no where near as fast as I thought it would be - but obviously faster rendering. Then I bought a dual processor with 3.2 xeon processors - still not as fast as I thought it would be and again not very stable.

 

So, my advice is to REALLY look hard at hardware. Lots of money does not mean a killer fast system. Theres lots of great advice on the forum here. Spend some time searching the threads.

 

On software:

 

Need to know some AutoCAD in order to get files from clients and then clean and prep them.

 

Model in SketchUp (and you should learn to use the power of its own rendering abilities which can be very powerfull) BTW you can probably clean and prep files in SketchUp if needed, its just sometimes easier in AutoCAD.

 

I learned interior rendering with AccuRender which is great, easy to learn and can produce very nice interior renderings. Below are my first renderings that I did in AccuRender and modeled in SketchUp (the chairs need work). Not as stunning as some of the Vray renderings but the client was very happy, I got paid, bought a faster computer, and got more clients which is the name of the game.

 

Move onto 3D Studio for exterior renderings. As stated above, learn some modeling so that you can do the more organic stuff that is harder in SketchUp like pillows, cushions, drapes, etc. And then get up to speed on Vray (I'm still learning) for both interior and exterior renderings.

 

Using Piranesi is great (and lots of fun) for landscaping and adding entourage to your renderings. I use the plug-in which allows me to render in 3D Studio and export an EPIX file for Piranesi and then you can landscape and complete the rendering in that program rather than relying on RPC's in 3D Studio and getting everything right for the final rendering in 3D Studio.

 

Good Luck and get used to 24 hours with no sleep once you start working for a client. If you are married, better get the wife on board also since they tend not to like having their spouses glued to the computer for endless days especially if the client doesn't pay well or pay on time.

[Gaze]

Very kind of you to stop by with input. I'm weighing as many approaches as possible before the $pending starts.

 

I forgot to ask for recommendations on other forums I can check out on this topic?

 

So far I have AutoCad and bought a book "Mastering VIZ 2005" which includes a trial copy of VIZ to get started. This was a few months back.

My computer is about 2 years old (2.4 GHz Pentium/Windows), so I'm open to hardware upgrade(s) as well.

 

Also, I would like for my renderings to be based on 100% (dimensionally) accurate models. Are programs like SketchUp fully accurate or more approximate? I guess it's the term "sketch" that raises this question.

 

Costs? I would appreciate also any mention of approximate costs. You think it might be worthwhile to enroll somewhere as a student to get student rates? I'm open to that as well as I am quite serious about this endeavor.

[AJLynn]

I actually started with a class that used Alias Wavefront Studio (because the cluster machine we had that had good 3D were SGIs) then taught myself Viz and Autocad. Wrong way to go I think.

 

If I had it to do now I would start with Sketchup (because it does 3D modeling without the interface getting in the way) and when I was comfortable with thinking in 3D, get into Cinema4D - I'm just learning that now and finding it so compatible with the way I think that I'm regretting having spent so much time banging my head against Viz and Max (Viz because it's what my school has, Max because it's what my office has).

 

You can get trial versions of all this stuff. You can also get a Maya "Personal Learning Edition" that doesn't expire and has all the features but only does low res renders.

 

As for cost, Max is the most expensive of these packages, Sketchup the least, and Viz, C4D and Maya fall in between.

 

All of this stuff produces dimensionally accurate models, Sketchup included. (Try it, it's like crack, I pass around the demo copy and everybody is hooked after one hit.) All of them have some export/import pathway to put and Autocad drawing in, keep the scale and work with it (though Max/Viz interoperate with Autocad best by far).

 

As far as renderers, I've tried everything I could download a trial version of or get access to on somebody else's computer recently, and they all have good points and bad points, I'd say figure out what software you like then look at the renderers that are compatible with it. Also several companies are coming out with their next generation soon (Maxwell coming out beta in the fall, FinalRender Stage-2 for C4D, and I've even heard crazy talk about VRay for Sketchup???) so I'd hold out and see.

 

As for hardware, you can get some really fast stuff these days, take a look at AMD's dual core options and maybe a midrange Quadro or FireGL card, and having 2 gigs of RAM helps a lot. Quadro and FireGL are both professional 3D cards, Quadro is better for use with Max and Viz because nVidia has custom driver software for them. This is all if you're psyched to spend a bunch of money right now, but for learning, you might be better off sticking with what you've got for now and then deciding what your needs are before buying.

[Gaze]

That is a lot of great advice and info, AJ. REALLY appreciate it.

 

Based on advice so far, I'm thinking of holding tight with my current hardware for a while until I better determine my needs.

 

I'm going to check out SketchUp trial. Also getting into AutoCad and VIZ (trial) since I've discovered it has Radiosity (Lightscape) built in and integrated Mental Ray(?) capability.

 

After lots of surfing today...man, I had no idea there's such a huge selection of renderers out there. Seems no obvious answer/direction for me. One thing that concerns me a bit is some packages being heavily loaded with industry jargon that can hinder a beginner trying to work with the various interfaces.

 

Siggraph...what is it exactly and should I try to attend ya think???

[AJLynn]

I'm going to check out SketchUp trial. Also getting into AutoCad and VIZ (trial) since I've discovered it has Radiosity (Lightscape) built in and integrated Mental Ray(?) capability.

 

Mental Ray is a 3rd party renderer that's packaged with Max, Viz and Maya. It can get you very good output but it can also be very slow and has some learning curve to it. Honestly, all of these 3D packages (except Sketchup) have at least one renderer included and it will give you good results, the addon renderers are nice but get comfortable with the application first - if you spend money on VRay for Max/Viz then decide you really like C4D more, well...

 

OTOH, if your trial copy of Viz supports render plugins, you can get either VRay Free (free license but limited capabilities) or a demo copy of VRay (does all kinds of stuff but is time limited) from chaosgroup.com and get the feel of using a render plugin. VRay is good stuff, it doesn't really do anything the other packages don't but it does everything faster. As an example, I did a complicated C4D model and rendered it on a P4-2.4 and it took 12 hours. Just to experiment, I exported it and imported to Max and did the same render on some lab computers with VRay - 3 computers, P4-2.8, 10.5 minutes. Don't know if that's typical, but I was sure impressed.

 

Siggraph is an industry conference, it's already going on now... if you're in LA you might see if you can get some kind of one-day limited-access ticket (it's pretty expensive for full access) but don't let anybody sell you anything

[Gaze]

Welp, after much deliberation, considering the significant price reduction, I'm now leaning towards Lightwave, plus the VUE software bundle. I'm off to gather info and materials for those two packages...

 

I'm looking at ACAD-->LW+VUE

 

I think this may do for arch int/ext stills I want to start with (and maybe some fly-thrus in the future). Lotsa learnin' coming up. Thanks guys.

[bjornkn]

I would really reccomend getting SketchUp, like several others on this thread have done already. It's a fantastic program which allows you model much faster than in any other program I've used, and with a smile on your lips all the time because it's so fun and smooth to use

I'm also using LW, which I think is a pretty good choice, and I think its future is quite a lot brighter than it seemed to be a few years ago. There seems to be a lot of nice things happening in the Newtek camp at the moment.

If you get LW you need to also buy the FPrime plugin, which lets you setup and light your scenes in real time, even with radiosity on. No need to do test renders all the time.

I just got a new AMD dual-core CPU, and it really rocks/flies in LW/FPrime. SketchUp only uses one CPU, so there's not much difference there.

[Gaze]

Thanks for the tips, Bjornkn. I picked up a SketchUp demo CD at Siggraph last week. Then got bogged down with a more conventional project here, so haven't tried it yet. I did order LW and Vue (on backorder) so I'm in for a wait before I can start playing. FPrime sounds very useful/interesting as well.

 

Is architecture your application?