DennisHolland Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I saw INXS (with Hutchence) quite some years ago....in my wilder years I've done some PS to lift it up a bit, also the black sides of the leather furniture and highlight the strong items in this one. Next time try to give your floor some blur in the reflections, check the wooden floorings around you how they behave in real life, it improves the real look a lot. Don't mind the artifacts I left, it's just a quicky... Nice project Tim. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 thanks dennis. i agree with you on the amount of blur you gave it. how to accomplish that without blurring the floor texture, i'm not too sure. i've struggled with that issue many times and have actually posted the concern in the forums before, but didn't get much help on the issue. perhaps if i had the full version ov vray there would be an adjustment to get that effect in my reflections? right now i'm just using standard materials. any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisHolland Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Hi Tim, you can fake blurry reflections in standard mats by having a very, very fine noisemap in your bumpslot. Prepare one in Photoshop, or use mine for instance (seamless) and give it an UV-tile of 25 in your map parameters. The original woodbump you probably have now is not important, the noisemap will give a blurry look just like a real wooden floor, fresnel ticked in the reflections is also very handy to give reflections a fade. The big plus in your renderskills now, is the nice composition of it all and your sense for detail. The rest is just trial & error... Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 okay. i'm taking a break from what i'm working on and setting up a quick test room. i'm interested in figuring that out. i'll have a post in a bit to show my results. maybe this should be a new thread, but i don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisHolland Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I've uploaded a noise for you in my previous reply in case you're allready started with your test and not had a notify of this edit. Play around with that noisebump a bit. It's gonna be fine I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 this is what i have so far. i'm not please though. the bump gives me the blur i want, but not without bumping the rest of the surface. if i decrease the bump value, i loose the blur. any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisHolland Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Do you have vray materials in the free version? If yes, there is a parameter under the reflection control which is the glossiness control. If you reduce the glossiness, you get blurry shadows. The less glossy, the more blur. Or, this advanced parameter is not in the free... Then comes part two, the noisemap in the bumpslot, which is what you have right now. This has a side effect that the groutbump is not there anymore so that is not what you want. There are two common options to solve that: 1- Render the scene, go into photoshop, select the wall (in this case) and reverse selection > delete > deselect. This means you only have the wall part left. Flip it (transform > flip vertical) and apply a strong gaussian blur filter. Crop the image to keep only a square. Save that map and apply it in your reflectionslot in Max (set reflection strength at appr. 25%). 2- Get the original bumpmap, which belongs together with your diffusemap and load it into photoshop and apply a very, very fine noise. That way you'll have the groutbump and the noise to get the blurry reflections. These are two somewhat intensive actions to fake blurry shadows and you'll never achieve the cool effects that can be fixed with the original features. The best is to get yourself a Vray advanced, which is in store right now at vismasters for $ 799. When you work with the advanced version, you'll get access of all features which is nice for future renderjobs. It's a matter of choice. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 dennis, i actually emailed my boss about an hour ago letting him know the benefits of vray advanced over the free version i have been using lately. i think he'll probably be convinced. he's allready blown away at the improvement in my work since the switch to vray free. in all honesty i'm way too lazy to go through the process to fake the blur the alternate way you suggested. i think i'll toy with a few materials when i get home tonight. the flat/mirror material has a blur option. i was thinking i might see if i could make that work for this type of thing somehow. or maybe i could modify one of the architectural materials that comes with viz? i saw their glass has a blur option. not sure how that will work with vray though. hey, on another note. when i buy vray advanced, am i limeted to the number of stations it can be installed on? do i have to buy an additional license for each station? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisHolland Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Hi Tim, Yep, it's a pain in the ass to go through all the stages for just blurry reflections but they are a must in a cool render these days. And the worst is, when finished with the techn. I mentioned, it still is not what you expected by far There are a number of great render engines on the market, but Vray is the worlds most sold one in the field. If you're feeling good with this one, then go for it. It's learingcurve s very acceptable, support distributed Rendering support for, I believe, up to 10 computers (each computer can have any number of CPUs) and a network licensing management system for using the VRay plug-in throughout a network without having to purchase licenses for each CPU. For more info or a purchase just go here (a cool training DVD included) Enjoy, good luck Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 thanks again dennis. hope i get a good response from the partner over me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 dang. i fugured out how to make blurry reflections using the flat mirror map, but i guess vray does not support flat mirror. the first image is with scanline, the second with vray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisHolland Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Cool! Very smooth Tim. It even has fresnel. Maybe try to preserve the groutbump and you're set. What did you do to get it like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 well, it's cool that i got it figured out, but only with scanline. maybe iff i render out a g-buffer reflection pass in scanline and composite it in ps with the vray rendering it would look better. the process for setting up ther material; first i get a standard material. put in "lat mirror" in the reflection slot. in the flat mirror parameters, make sure apply blur is checked, and increase the value to like 10 or so. you can still apply your maps in the diffuse slot and bump, and so-on. then you grab the object, add mesh modifier, select face sub-object level and pick the faces you want to apply the material to, then click apply the material to object (flat mirror can only be applied to faces, not objects). it works an all, but iff you look close the blurs get "jaggy-er" the higher blur value you give it. not sure how it would end up if you render at a high rez. i've got some free time while a couple projects are rendering today, so i am trying to figure out utilizing the g-buffer render elements to see if what i mentioned above would work good or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 this test worked out ok. after running the reflection pass with scanline, i switched renderer to vray and then ran a full pass. then i just opened them both up in ps, seleted the reflection, and dragged it over to the vray image, and adjusted the opacity level to get the amount of reflection i wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 old thread, but just in case someone was searching on blurred reflections using vray free, i didn't want them to be lost. there is an easier way than what i posted here. i was playing around with the vray map. it is real easy to use and can be used with falloff. on this floor, i used a standard material. i loaded my map into the diffuse slot as usual. in relfection i added falloff set to about 75. you can get nice blurry reflections without using falloff, it's just not as accurate. in the falloff parameters i loaded the vray map in the bottom slot set to 100. for a simple floor, it's probably best to just leave the falloff type and direction as the defalt (perpendicular/parallel & viewing direction). in the vraymap parameters, select reflect. under the reflection params, check glossy. i used a value of 130 for the glossiness, and left everything else at default. the higher the value on the glossiness, the smaller the reflection (or less blurry). the draw back with using this method is, once you check "glossy" in the reflection params, it slows both rendering down and the process of modifying the material in the editor. i would imagine it's that way with all 3rd party renderers when you get into blurred reflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfienoakes Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Rmaytee, Brand new to this forum, not to VIZ though..! This thread is one of the most significant I have read in a long time. I am just begining, like today, to look at Vray free, and tested out your material on a new drawing, and it looks very promising. If I change my renderer to Vray free, and revisit an older project, produced with scanline and a sunlight system, do I need to reset all of my materials, as I am getting some funny results? Also, can you still use radiosity etc.. I think I know you can, but just checking..? Thanks in advance Alfie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted September 29, 2005 Author Share Posted September 29, 2005 andy, glad the thread has been useful to you. the answer to your materials; there would only be two reasons you would need to change anything on your materials when switching renderer for a scene you previously used with scanline. first reason would depend on how well you use radiosity. when using radiosity to ut's full potential, you need to adjust the reflectance and transmitance values so you get the propper color bleed from the object the material is assigned to. sometimes you may adjust the output so much that when you use that same material with vray, it may look crazy so switch output levels back to 1.0. second rcondition that may require you to change your material is if you used the viz material "reflect/refract." this material is not compatable with vray, so place the vray mat in place of reflect/refract. the vray mat has both reflection and refraction capabilities, you just have to click the propper check box in the vraymat parameters. now, the answer to your radiosity question. vray has it's own radiosity simulation which is 50billion times easier to use than radiosity. that's why most of us use it, because i have a slight receding hairline due to radiosity alone. radiosity is still an option in the advanced lighting panel, but i don't even use it. try using adaptive subdivision in the image sampler rollout. then in the indirect illumination rollout, select "on" and irradiance map. defalt settings aren't too bad to start out, but you can play with them as you have the time. in the environment rollout, select "override max's." this should give you pretty good results. let me know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfienoakes Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Tim... What a fantastic piece of kit!! I am a convert to the cult of Vray...! I have just managed to produce the same level and way better, shadows and reflections etc.. in about a millionth the time it took me to learn it in Viz.. Now I like VIZ, but this is good..! Still getting used to it, but hope that I can post something soon..! Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 sounds good. i'd love to see what it's doing for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cassil Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Hey Tim, I'm curious to see if you put one of those squiggly light sticks closer to the forground (but so we can still see the bottom of it) would you still get accurate glossy reflections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 i haven't tried it, but because i am using falloff, i think the reflection will be less blurry the closser it gets to my camera. i ran this to play with the depth of field a bit, but because of the dof i think it is making it more blurry the closer it gets to the camera. i trashed my test model, so i'll have to play with it some more when i get the time (not today). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfienoakes Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 OK, well they are very raw at the minute, and I am obviously gonna work on them, but this is after a few test renders, and whilst running a couple of other jobs. Like I say, nothing stunning yet, but I am "well pleased"..! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 looks good. i would even soften your shadows up a bit more. with interiors really soft shadows seam to make a great effect when you have a light (sun) beaming in through the windows. it looks like you have siftened them up a little allready. i assume your using vray shadows? in the vray shadow params select smooth surface shadows, select area shadows, sleect box, and change the uvw sized to 20 and see how that looks. you may need to decrease the intensity of the light a bit, but run a test render first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfienoakes Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Here is where I am so far. Just need to play with the materials, and interior lighting. Generally, I am really impressed with the way it calcs the shadows etc.. I have added some spots, but they don't seem to be making much impact on the scene. Does Vray dull them down in any way? I am re running this one tonight to see if I can get their intensity right. Also need to tweak the reflections on my wood furniture items. And my walls look very blotchy.. I know using radiosity how to sort that, I would use the filter radius option. Not sure which setting would help that with Vray? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Saunders Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 looks good. your coming along nicely. as far as your blotches go, have you given the walls an actual material? i find that often that will help. if it's a plain painted wall, still make a material that has the propper specular glossiness and bump if you want. if the blotches are still there, it can usually be solved in a couple ways. 1-by increasing interp. samples a bit. if that doesn't do the trick. put it back to where it was (20 is defalt). 2-you can play with the secondary bounces. i have never needed to adjust this value, but i have heard people on the forums adjust that when they have problems. and even just below that you could also play with the direct computation subdivs. so i guess in either of those 3 areas of adjustment, you should get the result you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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