Nvidia Quadro 4 900 XGL

[Wolf]

The WildCat is sure getting a run for its money

with the latest nvidia card the Nvidia Quadro 4 900 XGL

and even its 750 version is pretty close behind the wildcat and sooo much cheaper

i know where my money is going next

and it aint gonna be a cat

 

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=45000354

[Greg Hess]

Hey Wolf,

 

One thing to note about these tests is how the cards are performing in other apps.

 

If you look at both aceshardware and...

 

http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,3396,s=1017&a=27193,00.asp

 

You'll see that though the nvidia cards are extremely quick in discreet applications, the wildcats really show their own in apps like maya or xsi. One could argue this is due to both maxtreme and max's ogl layer, but its always something good to look at when your considering a purchase for multiple applications.

 

I still think the quadro's rule myself, just wanted to point that out .

 

Originally posted by Wolf:

The WildCat is sure getting a run for its money

with the latest nvidia card the Nvidia Quadro 4 900 XGL

and even its 750 version is pretty close behind the wildcat and sooo much cheaper

i know where my money is going next

and it aint gonna be a cat

 

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=45000354

[samp]

What about the Matrox Parhelia ?

 

/me is going to buy a new PC in or after the vacation, so I'm looking for the rigt components.

 

What grafix card is both good for Grafix programs and for games?

Grafix Programs (VIZ 4 and Photoshop basicaly) are more important, but I do like to play a game from time to time ...

[Greg Hess]

Matrox has been out of the 3d market for years. They neither have the experience nor the driver knowledge to output both a stable and fast platform at once. THe Parhelia might be extremely fast, but more then likely it'll be buggy, and have problems with a variety of opengl apps.

 

(Based on matrox's history, they have yet to produce a card that can actually run in opengl mode WITHOUT having some sort of issue or problem in max)

 

Eventually after a few months (Like ATI) they could iron out most of the driver issues, but with the Geforce 5 only a few months away, they won't have enough time to output a competitive bid in the 3d accelerator market.

 

The new matrox card is nothing more then a trumpet blast. They're coming back, and this is the first card their outputting to cause a few beads of sweat to grace the competitions foreheads.

 

Stick to nvidia for the time being if you want an extremely fast, extremely inexpensive accelerator setup.

 

"Edited"

 

Here's some more fire for ya...

 

Matrox recently was showing off their new card...or at least attempting too. They had so many problems, they couldn't even get the cards to run. Thats the kinda of hardware I want in my system .

 

Here's some quotes. (courtsy of [H]ard|OCP)

 

"and Matrox was on hand with their Parhelia-512 but it wasn't doing anything. Talking to the Matrox rep, I was told that they'd been having a few problems with their early beta videoboards, but was assured that Matrox was well on its way to solving them."

 

"I went past the display very fast and just snapped a quick picture when the Matrox guy all of a sudden stopped me and started questioning me. He wondered why I took a picture of the displays when there was nothing on the screen and he thought I was up to something. He obviously thought I was going to joke around about how the displays were not running and bad mouth Matrox but I meant no harm when taking the picture."

 

More info....

 

"Matrox said they would not be sending us a review unit on the same schedule as other sites and then revealed some interesting reasons. Matrox stated that due to the nature of our testing that they were not “comfortable” with sending us a Parhelia card. They seemed to think that we would be a bit too rough on the Parhelia and possibly show some issues that the “enthusiast” might identify as weaknesses. Logic would dictate that this of course means that Matrox thinks that the hardware review sites getting the first round of Parhelias would not expose those weaknesses. I had to take that as a compliment. Still, you might keep this in mind when you see the initial reviews hit and we will of course make sure you are aware of them as we always want to keep our readers up to date with current information. "

 

Matrox seems to be really worried about their new cards. Anytime I see the word issue, next to stress, its usually a good idea to wait .

 

[ June 19, 2002, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Greg Hess ]

[Guest adrian_dav]

Originally posted by Wolf:

The WildCat is sure getting a run for its money

with the latest nvidia card the Nvidia Quadro 4 900 XGL

and even its 750 version is pretty close behind the wildcat and sooo much cheaper

i know where my money is going next

and it aint gonna be a cat

 

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=45000354

there wasn't much news about 3dlab's wildcards in many months. they were in financial difficulty. wasn't there something about creative labs taking them over?

 

however: 3dlabs is back in business. they were developing a totally new GPU, the P10. several card configurations around the P10 are around the corner and will be released in the very near future. pricing for these cards is very reasonable by comparisson to previous cards.

 

have a look at this article to see what 3dlabs has coming. it sounds very very promising! prices are listed as well.

 

best,

 

adrian

http://www.adriandavidson.com

[Greg Hess]

These new cards do not use the P10 chipset. They are remanufactured quadro cards with 3dlabs/creative driver sets. Their performance, pricing, and features fall within 5% of their Quadro 4 brothers.

 

Read very carefully and look very closely at the cards and their performance. Its pretty funny actually. 3dlabs is even using nvidia's ogl extension.

 

Guess we know who won that battle

[Guest adrian_dav]

Originally posted by Greg Hess:

These new cards do not use the P10 chipset. They are remanufactured quadro cards with 3dlabs/creative driver sets. Their performance, pricing, and features fall within 5% of their Quadro 4 brothers.

 

Read very carefully and look very closely at the cards and their performance. Its pretty funny actually. 3dlabs is even using nvidia's ogl extension.

 

Guess we know who won that battle

i read the article several times and could find no indication that the new wildcats use nvidia's GPU. i wasn't able to make out any nvdia chips on the card either, which doesn't mean much since i can't differentiate the little black squares anyway .

 

i found more statements clearly indicating that the wildcards use their own P10 GPU. the P10 is now in PR-hype refered to as VPU(video processing unit).

 

the following press release talks about the cards mentioned in the previously posted article and states:

 

"3Dlabs expects to ship board-level products based on the first Visual Processing Unit (VPU), a chip codenamed the P10, during the third quarter of 2002."

 

i have the strongest doubts that 3dlabs is using any nvidia parts. knowing nvidia's PR machine a bit, i would not assume that 3dlabs could take their GPU and claim it under a new name as their own invention.

 

i personally don't care about the graphic card wars. i use neither 3dlabs or nvidia, but a good old ATI8500 which is quite sufficient for my work in viz4.

 

best,

 

adrian

http://www.adriandavidson.com

[Greg Hess]

Of course their not going to admit it. You have to read the white papers to see the simularities...

 

Mainly the Nvidia OGL extensions, 3dsmax specific driver (Maxtreme), and Quinex AA.

 

And of course the performance #'s are extremely close.

 

Remember that the P10 was supposed to be revolutionary, not slower then all the upcoming cards.

[Guest adrian_dav]

Originally posted by Greg Hess:

Of course their not going to admit it. You have to read the white papers to see the simularities...

 

Mainly the Nvidia OGL extensions, 3dsmax specific driver (Maxtreme), and Quinex AA.

 

And of course the performance #'s are extremely close.

 

Remember that the P10 was supposed to be revolutionary, not slower then all the upcoming cards.

i really enjoy reading your posts, particular the system related ones, but this time your are seeing ghosts here .

 

all articles i found and the material on the 3dlab web site clearly state the use of the P10 or VPU in PR-hyper-talk.

 

no performance benchmarks were available yet. the only indicator was the remark that the new wildcats can stand their ground by comparison to NVIDIA and ATI workstation cards using widcat beta drivers as said in the article by Tom's Hardware. we'll have to wait i guess.

 

creative labs having taken over 3dlabs means that they focus on mid-level segment, top gaming cards and low-end workstation cards, which fits nicely into creative lab's overall product palette. the focus on this segment means that i can finally afford a wildcat as well. the $3000 oxygen cards were always beyond what i want to spend.

 

if you find an article stating that NVIDIA parts are used on these cards, please post the link here. i'd be very interested since i postponed my next graphic card purchase because of these cards. i could go right ahead and get a NVIDIA based card right away.

 

best,

 

adrian

http://www.adriandavidson.com

 

[ July 01, 2002, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: adrian_dav ]

[Guest adrian_dav]

i was looking for more indicators that the wildcats use NVIDIA chips, but i couldn't find any. should all the following sites have fallen victim to the lies of some 3dlab-PR-spin-doctor?

 

The Register

 

ExtremeTech

 

Virescent

 

AnandTech

 

even a man who i respect a lot:

John Carmack

john carmack mentions that the P10 supports some of the programming standards for the NV10/20 which might explain similarities in the driver interface you mentioned.

 

i was looking at the tech specs for both, Geforce and P10 and found that the specs are quite different. once again: spec sheets are not my domain, i just look at numbers without knowing what they actually mean.

 

best,

 

adrian

http://www.adriandavidson.com

[Guest adrian_dav]

WILDCAT cards:

 

some preliminary benchmarks with beta drivers

Reactor Critical

 

stating the use of the P10 and affirming the mid-segment as target group:

Beyond3D

 

another early benchmark:

Amazon International

[Greg Hess]

I still disagree. I've seen the cards . If they aren't using nvidia cores, they sure as hell are using other nvidia parts.

 

All you have to do is hold the two cards in your hands to see how freaking similar they are.

 

Take a look at the VX1 as compared to the new wildcat line and you'll see what I mean. Then take any of the gf4 ti line, or quadro line, and compare.

 

The stats are very similar, if you convert the different raw poly, vs untextured poly stuff. Its a whole lotta pr smut, but you can see at the core how similar they are.

 

Maybe its just random fate that two completely different technologies would produce very similar results.

 

If you ask me, the differences in performance are easily reproducible just with different driver sets. (Aka you can vary the performance that much on the nvidia cards by swapping different drivers).

 

Just wait till someone figures how to mod the cards to show up in windows as something else.

 

I'm not going to comment anymore, I might get in trouble.

[Guest adrian_dav]

hi greg,

you were able to hold both cards in your own hands to compare them and now say that you are not gonna post more info?

 

now you got me all worked up .

 

a simple one: are you sure enough about the NVIDIA GPU on the new wildcats to recommend that i go out and by an NVIDIA based card? that is a none-NDA yes/no question .

 

best,

 

adrian

http://www.adriandavidson.com

[Greg Hess]

The main benefits of the 3dlabs new wildcat cards are 1600x1200 DVI-I, and AA which is more refined then the Quadro's. Performance is around the quadro4's, a bit less as to not interfere with the main wildcat line. (Far be it for 3dlabs to make their own technology look inferior)

 

I can't confirm nor deny nvidia technology in any 3dlabs products.

 

Remember 3dlabs is no longer 3dlabs. Its creative labs with a 3dlabs sticker on it.

[Guest adrian_dav]

Originally posted by Greg Hess:

I still disagree. I've seen the cards. If they aren't using nvidia cores, they sure as hell are using other nvidia parts.

 

All you have to do is hold the two cards in your hands to see how freaking similar they are.

 

Take a look at the VX1 as compared to the new wildcat line and you'll see what I mean. Then take any of the gf4 ti line, or quadro line, and compare.

 

The stats are very similar, if you convert the different raw poly, vs untextured poly stuff. Its a whole lotta pr smut, but you can see at the core how similar they are.

 

Maybe its just random fate that two completely different technologies would produce very similar results.

 

If you ask me, the differences in performance are easily reproducible just with different driver sets. (Aka you can vary the performance that much on the nvidia cards by swapping different drivers).

 

Just wait till someone figures how to mod the cards to show up in windows as something else.

 

I'm not going to comment anymore, I might get in trouble.

i'm holding one of the new 3dlab cards in my hand and try to find the NVIDIA parts ... any help?

[Greg Hess]

It wouldn't actually SAY nvidia. Are you crazy? Hehe. Check the serial readouts.

 

I don't really know why 3dlabs invested time into the VP cards. At best they barely compete, and their release is right before the nv30 and r300. Its just...well its like they got matrox marketing people over there.