Maxwell 1.0 Release is pushed back again

[Christopher Nichols]

I sorta figured that was evident, but probably good to articulate.

Good question--there has been talk from NextLimit about baking, but as far as I can recall it was not a promise for v1.0

There is baking in FinalRender2 though I haven't tried it yet.

Chris, what version of vRay was being shown to us when you and I were talking at the Chaos booth at Siggraph? Because whatever it was, it was fast, looked great (very much like Maxwell) and was bucket rendering. Also, didn't they say the guy over on the side was working on a Cinema connection--or could? My memory has gone a bit fuzzy, and since you were there too, I'm hoping you can fill in the blanks because I was impressed with what they were showing us.

 

Well any GI rendering worth their weight should have baking ability.... especially for archviz.

 

The version they were showing is the current beta 1.4x something. But to be honest, Vray has been at about the same speed for the last 2 years or so.

 

They have several plug going now. I think the one you were looking at was Rhino. That is actually being done by some guy in Baltimore. They are working on Rhino and Stetch-Up plugs. Not sure about Cinema 4D. They do have a Maya version going now, but that is in closed beta.

 

I have not use FR since Stage0, I gave up on it. But I hear that the FR stage 2 is pretty cool. My wife is learning Cinema 4D... I should tell her about it.

[Devin Johnston]

Well any GI rendering worth their weight should have baking ability.... especially for archviz.

 

I don't know about that, I've been using Final Render for about 2 years and have done several animations with it without using it's baking function, so you don't have to have it. I'm sure that Next Limit will implement baking at some point down the road or something like it, they have other problems that are much more important that they have to deal with right now. As a matter of fact Keytoon has done several animations with the alpha and beta version of Maxwell that are absolutely amazing without any baking.

[czoog]

I don't know about that, I've been using Final Render for about 2 years and have done several animations with it without using it's baking function, so you don't have to have it. I'm sure that Next Limit will implement baking at some point down the road or something like it, they have other problems that are much more important that they have to deal with right now. As a matter of fact Keytoon has done several animations with the alpha and beta version of Maxwell that are absolutely amazing without any baking.

Yes, of course, you don't have to use it, but think of how much faster you can get animations done using a baked solution. We're talking about cutting massive amounts of render time out. We could not even concieve of doing an animation without some kind of prebaked solution. If we were to consider Maxwell, it was have to support this, and be about 20 times faster than it is now.

I know speed isn't everything, but in the arch-viz world, it's darn close.

[Christopher Nichols]

Ah yeah... from 2 hours a frame to 4 mins a frame (when baked). Lets see take a 300 frame anim (10 sec). Proc time goes from 25 days to 20 hours... Lets say you have a good size farm with 30 procs, Maxwell non-baked would take 20 hours (much longer than overnight), Vray baked would take 40 mins (shorter than over lunch). Oh yeah... you only need one license of Vray at $799. At $1000 per 4 cpus, Maxwell would cost you $8,000 for a farm of 30 cpus. I'm sorry, but to me, it is a no brainer. You can produce beautiful images in ANY rendering engine.

 

Now, I love Vray, but I love GI lighting more then that, and when Maxwell first came out I was looking at it very closely, but the product they are giving, and the price and the speed are just WAY to much. I am sure that people feel the need to defend it, because some of you may have paid for 10 licenses of it and you have to justify the cost... but I just don't see it.

 

I will say this... if Maxwell was not out, Vray may not have added the new Vray Sun/Sky, Physical Camera, PPT, and all the other things that can give it that Maxwell look so easily. So I will thank them for that.

[Paul Griger]

I have had just about enough of the eerie, Orwellian tone the NL forum has taken.

 

Yes, I have one seat of MaxRen. No biggie, I gambled and lost out on the short return. It may turn out that I have thrown money at vaporware, and if so, lesson learned.

 

What gets under my skin is the Orwellian fashion in which NL is handling this whole debacle, and how honest, hard working people are being manipulated.

 

It’s “Animal Farm”, CG style.

 

The sheep are bleating, “MaxRen good, other rendering apps bad.” The pigs are running the farm more and more recklessly without accountability. The seven rules are all being broken one by one.

 

Just wait until they move into the house and start walking on two legs

 

These poor users have so much emotional investment into this, and are so blinded by this devotion, that they can not see [or don’t want to admit] that they are being manipulated. This is supposedly an RC, we should not be beta testing this alpha/beta-ware.

 

 

For another analogy, it’s like the guy [or girl] that clings onto the 10/10 girlfriend [boyfriend]. They lie, they flirt with others, they even cheat, but the poor sap still believes in the GF/BF.

 

They finally say that that are going to straighten up, so this loyal significant other comes over to their house only to find them stark naked with someone else.

 

That is what NL pulled when they released RC 1.

 

Now they say they are sorry, that it will be different this time.

 

Actions speak louder than words, and the best bet is to take off and wait for THEM to change and to put out a viable product, instead of hanging around and enabling NL’s bad behavior.

 

 

NL isn’t the only pretty face on the block.

[Devin Johnston]

I looked at Vray before I purchased Maxwell and one of the biggest sticking points I had was that with Maxwell there was no guessing as far as lighting was concerned and there were very few parameters to tweak. I didn't want to take a step back to where I had to spend hours tweaking lighting and AA settings. I admit that Vray is faster but as far as ease of use and image quality goes, Maxwell has it beat hands down.

[Ernest Burden III]

These poor users have so much emotional investment into this, and are so blinded by this devotion, that they can not see [or don’t want to admit] that they are being manipulated...

 

Haven't seen you around lately, Paul, have we?

 

I guess you haven't read my recent posts at Maxwell's forum? I'm with you, they're mostly nuts. I said they've gone down the rabbit's hole.

 

the best bet is to take off and wait for THEM to change and to put out a viable product, instead of hanging around and enabling NL’s bad behavior.

 

The problem there is that they have our money. Like you, I gambled and think now on the losing horse. But we live and learn. I am doubtful we will ever see what we were promised. Maybe we will, but the current track isn't heading that way. That company may simply run out of capital to fund the never-ending project, and be un-able to get much new capital from licence sales or other investors. A revolt of current 'customers' could pull their ability to raise funds. End of company, end of product. Or last-minute successful release. Either way, one of those will happen fairly soon, I predict.

[Christopher Nichols]

I looked at Vray before I purchased Maxwell and one of the biggest sticking points I had was that with Maxwell there was no guessing as far as lighting was concerned and there were very few parameters to tweak. I didn't want to take a step back to where I had to spend hours tweaking lighting and AA settings. I admit that Vray is faster but as far as ease of use and image quality goes, Maxwell has it beat hands down.

 

I hope you don't take too much offense to this, and you can see my point of view, but that I think, as a teacher, that is a REALLY bad way to work. I buy a camera based on all its features, its internal quality, and its reliability. I also expect that I will need to learn to use that camera. I don't buy a point and shoot camera based on seeing some pictures that a professional took and expect that my images will look just like his/hers with the touch of a button.

[Devin Johnston]

I hope you don't take too much offense to this, and you can see my point of view, but that I think, as a teacher, that is a REALLY bad way to work.

 

Not sure what you’re referring to as a bad way to work, are you saying that comparing the images of Maxwell (professionally done) to the images of Vray (professionally done) isn't a good way of comparing what the software is capable of doing? As for comparing features it was clear when I purchased Maxwell (February 2005) that it was capable of doing everything Vray could do. What I didn't know at the time was that Next Limit was far from being able to release a full version even though they had July as their official release date.

 

I buy a camera based on all its features, its internal quality, and its reliability. I also expect that I will need to learn to use that camera. I don't buy a point and shoot camera based on seeing some pictures that a professional took and expect that my images will look just like his/hers with the touch of a button.

 

The reason I purchased Maxwell was because as a current user of Final Render I didn't want to get trapped in another complicated engine. No matter what you think of Maxwell the one thing that is true is it's easy to use, hence you can spend more time creating better materials and a better model and not waste it tweaking lighting settings.

 

I think it's stupid to try and compare Maxwell and Vray, one is a fully developed engine that has been out for years. The other is still in deep development and doesn’t have a lot of its functionality. Yes Vray is faster, it should be, but Maxwell is easier to use and produces images equal to or better than Vray. At some point if Maxwell survives, the pendulum will swing toward Maxwell because it can only get faster from this point on.

[yog]

What gets under my skin is the Orwellian fashion in which NL is handling this whole debacle, and how honest, hard working people are being manipulated.

It’s “Animal Farm”, CG style.

I think it's more like Orwell's "1984"

 

August press release - "The final version of Maxwell will be released in September"

October press release - "Next Limit are pleased to anounce the official relese date will be November"

November press release - "As a sign of how much Next Limit value their customers, we will be giving users an early sneak peak at ver-1 by releasing a release Candidate in December".

 

User - "Hang on a minute. The final version was meant to be released in June".

Next Limit - "A dissident eh ? Right lads, off to Room 101 with him !"

[davistalexander]

I buy a camera based on all its features, its internal quality, and its reliability. I also expect that I will need to learn to use that camera. I don't buy a point and shoot camera based on seeing some pictures that a professional took and expect that my images will look just like his/hers with the touch of a button.

 

I think he's trying to say the person behind the camera will make the difference....

 

davis

[Devin Johnston]

I agree, but that really doesn’t relate to what we've been talking about. It is true though, an artist can create beautiful images despite his medium.

[renato]

NL took a big step backwards. Seems like they wrote a completely different engine in a couple of weeks, and is still in alpha.

In my opinion, they should've improved the core and plugins, and in a parallel way they should've develop the maxwell studio app. Everybody would've very happy playing with a very optimized (and usable) core, plugins, and as a bonus, with an alpha MaxwellStudio version, to further develop, once the core is solid as a rock.

I wouldn't mind waiting for the final vers. another 6 months, as long as they provide constant updates to IMPROVE the engine, and adding usable features.

[Paul Griger]

Haven't seen you around lately, Paul, have we?

 

Hi Ernest!

 

Been revamping my life. Decided to pursue my lifelong dream of becoming a licensed architect, so I am going to school for the first time, full-time no less.

 

34 yr. old Freshman...it's quite an experience.

 

In 7+ years I plan on having my M. Arch and M. Urban Planning, plus a Real Estate license. Taking as many Art classes as I can along the way...Art History, Architectural Watercolor Painting, Line Drawing...etc...

 

 

I guess you haven't read my recent posts at Maxwell's forum? I'm with you, they're mostly nuts. I said they've gone down the rabbit's hole...

... A revolt of current 'customers' could pull their ability to raise funds. End of company, end of product. Or last-minute successful release. Either way, one of those will happen fairly soon, I predict.

 

I've seen a couple posts; I think we are of the same line of thought.

 

I have been over there a few times to check on the wonderful renderings that would be produced from RC1/RC2. All I have seen thus far are bleating reviews sans the pretty renderings.

 

This situation with NL may be the first time I have actually hoped AutoDesk would buy "up a smaller up and coming company" with promising software. Maybe some money & organization from AutoDesk would actually result in a useful rendering software package from NL in a timely manner

[Max3D]

I agree, but that really doesn’t relate to what we've been talking about. It is true though, an artist can create beautiful images despite his medium.

 

The problem with most renderers is that there is no metaphor which you can use to learn the tricks. It's tweaking in the dark to get most renderers to produce good results. Remember the old shadow buffers in 3ds studio / max: the manual could only tell you 'if it looks like this you have to increase them otherwise it's ok'. There was no real relation between the scene and the buffersize which you could 'learn'. Just tweaking. The same goes for all the FG, photon, additional lights settings.

 

Maxwell however has a good metaphor: knowledge of reality and experience in photography will get you started and make sure you get the results you expect even before trying them.

 

This is not to defend NL's policy or whatever. I post on the Maxwell forum as well and I'm not the typical fanboy.

 

BTW: hi all, this is my first post here after reading every now and then for years. I'm the typical crumpy old man; been into 3d for twenty years, wrote a commercial renderer in the late eighties, betatested for Gary Yost etc. Won't bother you with my life story, but this background explains my views on some topics.

[Devin Johnston]

Welcome Max3D, I agree with what you said, NL has made monumental mistakes and continues to do so and it really amazes me how easily people forget about what they have done.

[William Alexander]

Been revamping my life. Decided to pursue my lifelong dream of becoming a licensed architect, so I am going to school for the first time, full-time no less.

 

34 yr. old Freshman...it's quite an experience.

 

In 7+ years I plan on having my M. Arch and M. Urban Planning, plus a Real Estate license. Taking as many Art classes as I can along the way...Art History, Architectural Watercolor Painting, Line Drawing...etc...

 

Absolutely Fabulous PAUL !!!!!!!!!!!

 

UWM? Marquette? MSOE?

 

WDA

[Trick]

...wrote a commercial renderer in the late eighties...

GIG ??

[demo38]

FYI... From the Mexwell site Announcements.

Call me a sucker, but I was sold on the early images and bought Maxwell myself, but am still hopeful for a viable product in the end... I'm not trying to debate, but RC2 is out with hopeful fixes yet this week... I guess I'm in the glass half full mode this week for a change?

----------------------------from maxwell forum-------------------------

Dear friends,

We understand the frustration with RC1, we are not happy too. The software has a great potential as you will see soon, however the pressure to release a first persion plus a wrong project schedule has lead us to this situation. I am confident than Maxwell will become stable very fast, as there are many small annoying bugs very easy to fix. The render engine requires some fine tuning now undergoing. As you can see in some examples, previous 30 hours results can be obtained now in 3 hours.

We are going to work very hard in the next days to provide continuous updates plus the rest of the missing plugins. The beta-testing team is really doing a great job sending feedback.

Again, we apologize for this situation and we will consider a kind of compensation for all the current customers. We are devoted to this job, in the bad and good times.

Thank you,

Victor

Next Limit

[Max3D]

GIG ??

 

No! There was even more innovation coming from the Netherlands in these days

[Ricardo Eloy]

We understand the frustration with RC1, we are not happy too. The software has a great potential as you will see soon, however the pressure to release a first persion plus a wrong project schedule has lead us to this situation.

The funny thing is that they gave their customers a deadline. As I understand, you can only give your client a deadline if you strongly believe you can make it. Of couse, in some cases you make a mistake and find out you can't make it on time, but they made the same "mistake" more than a couple of times. Call me picky, but pressure is not a good excuse for this. Also, how the heck could they release something THEY were not happy with?

[Christopher Nichols]

BTW: hi all, this is my first post here after reading every now and then for years. I'm the typical crumpy old man; been into 3d for twenty years, wrote a commercial renderer in the late eighties, betatested for Gary Yost etc. Won't bother you with my life story, but this background explains my views on some topics.

 

Holy xxxx... talk about cool old school! I want to be friends with you. Yost group huh? Or was it even pre Yost Group? I want to be friends with you.... I also want to know what you are doing now. A lot has happened since the mid 80s.

[Trick]

No! There was even more innovation coming from the Netherlands in these days

Eindhoven ??? (Lost the name )

[Fran]

Holy xxxx... talk about cool old school! I want to be friends with you. Yost group huh? Or was it even pre Yost Group? I want to be friends with you.... I also want to know what you are doing now. A lot has happened since the mid 80s.

 

I think I've guessed what that program was.

 

[Trick]

I think I've guessed what that program was.

 

That was end 70's, begin 80's