UK freelancing

[CHE]

Here are some other questions that I think need to be answered: How soon do you guys get to collect the checks from a client? Does it take usually a month or so after the job is done? If so, how do you guys pay for the bills in the mean time?

There aren’t many clients that are willing to pay upfront for a project unless it is an animation or it involves lots of cash so it gets hard sometimes.

Strat, my advice to you is to keep your full-time job and do freelance on the side while you work on your web site/portfolio and build a nice client base before making the big move and save up some money. I seriously doubt that you would have any problems getting projects, your work is outstanding. Good luck.

[Geoff]

Dunno if it's been mentioned but there's start-up costs too. Hardware, Software nice comfy chair, small fridge for beer etc...

[Geoff]

Looking at this thread and this one http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13508

It looks as though there are quite a few people just starting up or wanting to go freelance (me included, work have just rejected my pay rise request. Need money to feed babies ).

Reading all this is making me think that we are saturating the market, possibly causing 'price wars' just to get jobs to make ends meet.

[Renato1]

Another thing you must not forget is solitude of freelancing, sitting in front of your PC, sometimes for a weeks on end not speaking to anybody face to face just over the phone. If you are a very social person you will struggle.

 

Also you need to get an accountant to sort out your financial stuff, more money you need.

 

The other thing you must not forget is your electical bill which will more then double if you are rendering a lot.

 

Cheers

Renato

[lambros]

yep, loneliness that's the real drawback... Hopefully, I have my wife sitting next to me:)

[gfa2]

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I like to be left alone....espcially while I'm working. That's one of the things that drives me nuts in my office is that everyone that is bored with what they are working on likes to come over and bother me to watch me work.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

back on to the hidden costs.

 

ideally, when a project is done and comlpete, our firm likes to have a multiplier on average of about 2.3 times my salary. meaning that if i get paid X dollars working X hours, the compnay needs a minumum of say X x 2.1(varies) to break even, or more to make money.

 

the money made is after they pay me, pay for the electricity, pay part of my health insurance, pay for computer upgrades, heat, lease for the building, ect.. ect..

 

although working for yourself, some of these costs are absorbed back into you daily costs. such as heat for building, and lease.

 

_______

 

cont'd

 

so, maybe you should set up a salary for yourself. say, how much you are making now. then ontop of that figure out how much it will cost you to operate yur own bussiness.

 

then you can determine your own multiplier to deal with based on how much it cost for one employee (you), and how much it costs to maintain that one employee.

 

ect.. ect..

 

i am just trying to say that, if you making $5 now, and you think making $6 freelancing sounds appealing, it may not be. you might need to make $8-9 freelancing.

 

$9 dollars when you are making $5 would be a multiplier of 1.8 (just for reference)

[Mat@MDI-Digital]

Another thing you must not forget is solitude of freelancing, sitting in front of your PC, sometimes for a weeks on end not speaking to anybody face to face just over the phone. If you are a very social person you will struggle.

 

 

I can totaly agree with this..dont underestimate how depressing it can get somtimes. Luckly, I have people round all the time, and I go out alot aswell, but i do miss silly banter with work mates.

[4DM]

STRAT, if I were you I'd stay put. You have the best of all worlds if you are happy in the full time job you have.

 

If you are doing barely no overtime, get sick pay, holiday pay, and pension contributions..and have the time to do the occasional PJ, then I think you'd be a bit daft to throw it in for no other reason than itchy feet.

 

Your employer is obviously paying you less than they would if you were freelancing for them, so they may just replace you rather than pass their 3D work on to you in your new capacity.

 

The value of all the above benefits would have to be earned in addition to your usual salary.

The points about you having to invest in state of the art computing equipment are also important, together with the cash flow problems all freelancers have from time to time.

Plus the occasional doldrums with no work. Then there's the extra cost of accountancy, hassle of VAT returns etc, All this will be a culture shock to you.

 

My advice would be, if it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

Cheers,

 

D.

[joseph alexander]

I would recomend interviewing at other architecture offices. Ask for a high salary and say you can be flexible. You're in a very good position to switch companies and increase your salary. You have a good portfolio and one name on your resume for a long period of time. This should be your first step before freelancing. Maybe where your working now isn't paying you what you're worth... the only way to find out is to see what others will pay you.

 

Also be cautious about your current employer finding out that you're looking around. It's a last resort to claim that another office is willing to pay you more.

 

-joe

[Ernest Burden III]

I would recomend interviewing at other architecture offices.

 

That could be good advice. It might be worth looking at what other options you have with the 'having a real job' part.

 

Oh, Joseph--Manhattan you spelled it wrong -- now corrected, the world is safe again for us all. Not that my spelling is so good, either.

[RyanSpaulding]

Not to be disrespecting or anything...

But that converts to just about $86,000 and is over 3 times my salary. If you're unhappy with that for doing CG, then I dont know what to tell you. That's a KING'S salary where I am and I'd be happy for the rest of my life if I earned half that.

EDIT: My bad. Read it wrong. I thought you were moving FROM that, not TO that.

[derijones]

Hey Strat

Speaking from the point of view of someone who went solo two years ago, sounds like you're doing the same sums. £250/day doesn't sound like much but to put in bluntly, it's a ba***rd to actually manage day in day out for year on end.

I find work tends to come in waves - flat out busy for 3 months, then a hiatus while I run around shaking trees to see what falls out, then mad again. Even with working from the back office at home to minimise overheads, your still realistically talking about £10k/year - insurance, software, subs, new PC bits (it's amazing what you'll justify to yourself when you're bored at staring at the same wall (both physical and CG!) for days on end), travel, accountants fees, books, magazines etc etc...... Much as the WDA come across as being all bundles of cash, you'll have a bugger of a time getting any hard cash out of them - email me if you want more info on that front!

You've got to be almost schitzophrenic in your attitudes - play the good boss/bad boss routine to ensure you get stuff done, but also don't freak out and fixate on the company. Best bit of advice I had recently was "go on holiday for 10 days and forget about the company - remember why you're doing this!"

 

If you'd be happy making £20-30K /year with relatively low levels of stress and maximum amounts of interesting work, go for it, but to make the sort of money you're talking about realistically, I reckon you're looking at taking on staff, with all the hassle and crap that involves - you get to the point where you're no longer doing any arch viz work, just chasing customers, dealing with the bank and schmoozing for new work.

 

I went from being paid peanuts, managing a company that was going down the drain; but couldn't give up the living in the countryside (I've just been standing outside, watching shooting stars and the Milky Way, with not another human light to be seen, freezing!).

Cardiff's a good place to be based and as the housing market eases off, hopefully the developer's will be willing to stump up a bit more cash for work, but it's a bit of a gamble to take.

Anyway, cheers for starting a thread that's cheered me up - at least I know I'm not the only CG'er in the village!

Cheers

Deri

(This post was brought to you from the village of Llandewi Brefi....)

[bully712]

After reading this thread, I thought I would add some comments. Like most people I also would like to start up on my own, but I don't want to rush into it. My feelings are if you would like to make a decent living (financially) at an Architectural firm, you would have to do more design work than anything (this is my experience). I do 80-90% design, and the rest finished renderings. I’m making a descent salary, + a yearly bonus, + a nice Christmas bonus, + many extras, and it’s a secure job. I’ve been here 5 years, and we’re busier then ever. I also have a few clients that add a really nice addition financially.

 

I think location is the main concern if you’re going to make it on your own or not. I feel that local jobs would be the easiest to get. All of my Clients are within a 50 mile radius. These clients are the ones that refer you to other potential clients.

 

To sum up this paragraph (If I made any sense at all) If you’re willing to do more design work and make descent money, (you still get to render finished images, but not probably as much as you would like) stick with the employer you are currently at. The best way to start getting clients is from fellow employees that move on to other firms. That starts to get your name out. Once you build your clientele, and you know you can be comfortable getting a job or 2, or 3, a month, then work your way on your own. Also make sure you’re financially stable before the jump. These are just my opinions.

[STRAT]

Hey Strat

 

I find work tends to come in waves - flat out busy for 3 months, then a hiatus while I run around shaking trees to see what falls out, then mad again. Even with working from the back office at home to minimise overheads, your still realistically talking about £10k/year - insurance, software, subs, new PC bits (it's amazing what you'll justify to yourself when you're bored at staring at the same wall (both physical and CG!)

 

 

Best bit of advice I had recently was "go on holiday for 10 days and forget about the company - remember why you're doing this!"

 

If you'd be happy making £20-30K /year with relatively low levels of stress and maximum amounts of interesting work, go for it, but to make the sort of money you're talking about realistically, I reckon you're looking at taking on staff, with all the hassle and crap that involves -

 

 

Cheers

Deri

(This post was brought to you from the village of Llandewi Brefi....)

 

 

cheers for all the advice fellers. i think perhaps the best solution is to stay employed and earn extra money working evenings on the side.

 

ultimately i love this job, it just frustrates me knowing what i'm worth individually compaired to a bosses skimming it all.

 

Llandewi Brefi eh? got a pink rubber suit have you?

[JamesTaylor]

an alternative my be to approach other architects / your bosses and suggest setting up a new company branch which you have an interest in, maybe not controlling interest but at least access to a percentage of annual profits after your basic wage.

 

it my help in reducing the feeling that your just there to line someone else's pockets!

[STRAT]

an alternative my be to approach other architects / your bosses and suggest setting up a new company branch which you have an interest in, maybe not controlling interest but at least access to a percentage of annual profits after your basic wage.

 

it my help in reducing the feeling that your just there to line someone else's pockets!

 

interesting. someone also suggested to me the idea of signing a contract with my firm in a consultancy possition. that way i'm effectively self employed and can spread my wings so to speak, but also have a signed deal with my firm for definate work.

 

a lot to think about

[Sindala]

I know i'ma bit late but here we go:

 

I was recently thinking of jacking in my regular job (which isn't badly paid) and going it alone full time, but i had fairly negative feedback and views about it from peeps i know who do it.

 

About 2 years ago i quit my job after working in several big and small arch firms for 7 years, and i havent regretted it since. It's great to be in control of what you do, how you do it and when. for instance, i do my shopping on teusday around 2 then the supermarket is so empty that its like your own private store . It's so much better than getting on your bicycle (that what we do here in Holland) every morning to go to the man and do what he wants the way he wants it and help him fill his pockets.

 

For those who are successfull 1 man bands, how do you find it?

Do you make just enough to pay the bills, or are you reletively comfortably off?

Do you lay awake at night worrying where your next month's mortgage/rent is comming from?

Is your free time and quality of life pretty good, and ur not working like a bast**d to make end's meat?

Do you wish you had the security of a full time employment job instead at times?

 

I work with my GF and we started in debt because we had to buy software, we planned on doing dishwashing if we got to low so we could pay the rent and feed the dog. But we already had a portfolio, and a few clients. so we never did. At the moment we are making money like bast**ds, but we work like bast**ds aswell, about 6 projects a month. At the moment i find myself saying no to about 2 jobs a week because we are full. Sounds like a luxury problem but it really sucks. My friends are complaining about us working to hard though.

 

also, the more you earn the higher a tax bracket you go into, which, in the UK, is quite high, so you must earn allot more just to offset that! and i dont have a good 6 months worth of pay in my bank to help me start off.

 

Here in NL there are a lot of advantages when you start your own business, a good accountant can really help you a lot. What i do now is put aside 40% of every bill that gets payed, so i'm never surprised by the taxman, and i build up a nice saving. Remenber that clients are always late with paying the bill, and i have had 2 clients that tried not to pay me, but that's being handled.

I think i all depends on your current situation, if you dont have a mortgage, kids or spentsick GF and the risk of being without money for a few months isn't that scary then go for it! you can always get another job if your a good renderer. And that you are IMO! So i'd say just do it

[derijones]

I'd think very carefully about setting up partnerships like that - if you've worked for someone and then move to being on an equal footing in the decision making process, it can lead to a lot of friction. Also check out the financial and goodwill standing of the company in great depth - seriously get an accountant to look at the figures - it's amazing what crap you can hide in an allowable set of accounts!

This is talking from the experience of going from the CAD monkey in a two man band company, setting up the CAD/project management systems, then being offered a directorship as the company grew. I looked at the figures, thought I knew the business well and saw a bright future. The reality was that there was no real financial management going on, the company was only just breaking even and the jump from one man making all the direction decisions to a board of directors resulted in a hell of a lot of static and resentment. Working 60 hours a week and being last in line at the trough (you've got to pay the guys working for you first, to keep going!) isn't much fun.

Sorry to be down on the idea, but I'd go for the profit sharing option - we make money, you get a bonus, we don't, you don't, but at least you still get your salary. If you trust your company's directors and there is a clear accounting setup (i.e not hiding car loans under "equipment" or trips to the Bahamas under "advertising"!), , there's an incentive to work hard all round.

Cheers

[Simon Moir]

Interesting thread. Like you Strat I've often wondered about arch viz freelancing. When I was younger a group of friends and I started a company, and we managed to get about, oh, maybe three or four jobs a year (TV documentaries). None of us were prepared for the sheer hassle of sorting out all the stuff that goes with running (!) a business, in particular finding work. Luckily we had day jobs, so the pressure wasn't massive, but it made me realize how hard it could be.

I count myself lucky that I now work in a great office, interesting projects, with all the equipment I ask for, earning a not bad (could always be better) salary that pays for my family's dinner. But, when I have to work ridiculous hours, then yes, I start wondering...

I like the sound of doing a bit extra here and there, it sounds like a good compromise.

[Iain Denby]

Interesting, isn't it? there is often talk about fearing that visualisation work is going 'in house', yet many who are already 'in house' are talking about going freelance.

[STRAT]

Interesting, isn't it? there is often talk about fearing that visualisation work is going 'in house', yet many who are already 'in house' are talking about going freelance.

 

well that one reason why i bring this subject up.

 

we're getting so much 3d work that needs to be done i cant cope in house and we're now regulally farming out work to freelancers.

 

i really think the archi 3d side is most strong in the UK at the mo, and will continue this way for a long time to come. (but thats for another thread)

[Sindala]

i found that working inhouse was holding me back. Now i work on so many different types of projects, thats what i like most.

[Ernest Burden III]

we're getting so much 3d work that needs to be done i cant cope in house and we're now regulally farming out work to freelancers.

 

Yet you still go home at a human hour? I like that! When you're a freelancer its always your problem.

 

It sounds like your firm needs to hire on another vis person, or two, with you in charge of the department. That would require a raise in pay to go along with the raise in responsibility. I would apply to work with you, but the commute would be a killer.

[Simon Moir]

we're getting so much 3d work that needs to be done i cant cope in house and we're now regulally farming out work to freelancers.

 

We had a freelancer in twice this month. And farmed out to Hayes Davidson. Not only that, but we've really struggled to recruit this year, so I'd agree arch viz is strong at the moment. Touch wood.