WARNING: Maya User

[henrybroadhurst]

Hey there folks,

 

I am feeling possibly naive here!.. I have been working with 3d for 4 years+ now and currently work on small projects mainly for independant films and other small graphics/ media projects. A few years ago, while still a student, I undertook a visualization project, using Maya, for a small though internationally acclaimed architect. The result fairly impressed both the clients and the architects. I am now considering launching myself into the world of archi viz work as my main focus but have already raised a few of my friends eyebrows with my stated intention of using Maya. I'm not really interested in hearing the usual byass remarks, (that I would also expect from Maya users if roles were reversed), but would like to learn from all you pro's, by opening this can of worms...what kind of problems/ drawbacks/ competitive disadvantages etc do you think I am likely to encounter in using Maya..if any??!!....Bring on the rath!!....

 

Cheers,

Henry:D

[wondertonio]

Hey Henri !

 

I'm a Maya user too.

 

The main problems in Maya for Archiviz are the lack of specialized tools that would simplify our lives (can be solved if you have knowledge in Mel), the lack of a good .dwg importer (but I haven't tried Maya 7 yet so dunno how it is now), and the lack of Vray (but that is changing too).

 

So in the end, it's all up to you, no big flaws really.

Just a question of preferences.

Max is the weapon of choice for most here, but it surely is not a must. Maya or Cinema4D would do too.

 

Hope it helped.

[henrybroadhurst]

Thanks a lot for the reply Tonio, appreciated

 

-its comforting to hear- I take it Vray is 3dsmax renderer?-do you use mental ray?-I would like to get Renderman as its apparently "upto 10 times quicker" and also doesn't sound like such a mental! learning curve (?) but then apparently it only works on 1 processor and I'm considering a dual core dual processor machine, maybe still quicker once the maths is done?

 

Mel knowledge is pretty much non existent but then perhaps now is the time to get stuck in always been put off as from a definitely arty background rather than science! what is it really needed for and is it a lot of work to get going with?

 

Is .dwg what the architects work with out of their CAD apps?-what does MAX do here that Maya doesnt, that makes such a difference?

 

Sorry to ask so many questions but great to find a Maya Archivizer out there,

many thanks

[Christopher Nichols]

Thanks a lot for the reply Tonio, appreciated

 

-its comforting to hear- I take it Vray is 3dsmax renderer?-do you use mental ray?-I would like to get Renderman as its apparently "upto 10 times quicker" and also doesn't sound like such a mental! learning curve (?) but then apparently it only works on 1 processor and I'm considering a dual core dual processor machine, maybe still quicker once the maths is done?

 

Think again. For archviz you are going to want to have a solid GI rendering engine to be competative. Faking GI is not going to work for interirors as much. Renderman is NOT useful for architecture. It is designed for feature films and was originally built in the 80s to run a VAX machine. It power is its complexity and shader writing capability, and fast motion blur. Works really well for character rendering and complex situation. While Pixar (the makers of renderman) recently added some raytracing and GI, it is FAR from useable. I would say that is is around 10 to 30 time SLOWER then any solid raytracer such as mentalray or vray. Trust me, I use renderman every day. Also while renderman for may is on $1000, that is like renderman light. You will need Renderman Artist Toolkit to get the real power of renderman, and that is around $5k.... plus $2k per processor for the farm. MentalRay is a great way to get started with GI as it is free in both Maya and Max. Vray seems to be the most popular rendering engine of the archviz world mainly because it is among the fastest, and maybe easier to use. But as you said, as of now, it is only available for Max... soon will have a Maya plug. That being said, you have other great GI options for maya. Maxwell, MentalRay, Turtle, etc... and no, good old scanline will not cut it anymore. Keep in mind that the archviz world is actually the cutting edge of rendering engines right now (they just don't know it). Archviz has been using lightscape since the mid 90s. The VFX world is JUST starting to try to figure out how to do GI... problem is, they are still tied to the renderman world, so this is a real problem.

[henrybroadhurst]

Wow,

 

thanks for all the info, that certainly sorts out a lot- I had wondered why they didnt mention ray tracing in the renderman review!! had also had a look at a turtle review and had been pretty impressed with that till i saw the talked about speed of renderman any idea when this maya vray might be available?. I take it those do work on a dual processor? or am i dreaming with this whole one license for a dual processor thing?

 

Thanks heaps guys, feel like I should be paying tuition fees again!! ...(not really though eh!-still payin for the last ones thanks!!)

[manta]

"Is .dwg what the architects work with out of their CAD apps?-what does MAX do here that Maya doesnt, that makes such a difference?"

 

Yes thats correct, and thats one of the things that makes Max more popular, AutoCad and Max are made by the same company, and so Max has things like file-linking and practically native .DWG handeling, It also has robust poly modeling tools, whereas Maya is far better with Nurbs, I think there are some poly modeling tool plugins for maya that might make life easier...

[Christopher Nichols]

Wow,

 

thanks for all the info, that certainly sorts out a lot- I had wondered why they didnt mention ray tracing in the renderman review!! had also had a look at a turtle review and had been pretty impressed with that till i saw the talked about speed of renderman any idea when this maya vray might be available?. I take it those do work on a dual processor? or am i dreaming with this whole one license for a dual processor thing?

 

Thanks heaps guys, feel like I should be paying tuition fees again!! ...(not really though eh!-still payin for the last ones thanks!!)

 

Yes... yet again... Renderman is not multi-threaded.... again still holding on to 1980s technology. Most modern rendering engines are. MR, Vray, Brazil, Turtle, are very multithreaded.... meaning that they use all available threads (processors and cores) 99% of the time. Maya and Max scanline are pretty well multithreaded meaning that they use all threads 90% of the time. In terms of licensing.... recently, 3dsmax now gives free MR licenses for network renders using their backburner software. Maya does not have a network rendering package like maya and you need to pay for each license of maya to render on them. Vray has free network nodes as well.

 

As far as availability of Vray for Maya. A select gorup of users will have access in the near future for beta testing (like in a week or two). Not sure when the real release will happen.

[wondertonio]

First of all, it's nice to have words from one of the best cg artists around. Thank you Christopher !

 

To come back to the subject, the Mental Ray license of Maya allows dual-cpu. I don't know about their policy concerning dual-cpu/dual-core (your case), and you might have to buy extra license to take advantage of your hardware...

 

I've been using Mental Ray for prod. until recently, and it's true it's not straight forward : there's a lot to know and understand, and I would strongly suggest you to buy a learning dvd if you plan on using it.

For a nice realistic rendering, you can spend quite a long time to set up and then tweak and test. You got to be careful about the photons you spend, their size and trajectories, be aware of each shader "bleeding", etc. It can be quite discouraging at first.

At the same time, if your clients are not so regarding about the "real" factor (like mine ) , you can avoid all the fancy features and come with a 10 seconds setting that give ok results in shorts times.

 

I could hardly talk about other renderers you quote (like turtle) as I never used them.

What is sure is that Vray is the clear choice of most Max users who do archiviz. And it's coming soon to Maya...

 

On the other hand, I've been using Maxwell for the past few months, but it's like playing with fire. It's still not prod-proof. But the results (when there's no problem) are astonishing.

It's a push-button renderer (almost no setup) with terrific results (amongst the best) but still very slow (hours) and unfinished (still beta with bugs and issues). Look forward to it.

 

Concerning poly modeling, Maya tools are robust enough. No problem on that side.

We're just missing some arch specific automated features like the "wall" of Max/Viz.

 

About Mel... what's cool is that like the rest of Maya, you have different levels of possible "involvement".

You can go serious with it and build from scratch a tool you need (and so you have to learn how to program with mel).

Or really easily (one step), make a button that will automatize a repetitive task. Even an artist can do it

 

Hope it helped.

[Christopher Nichols]

First of all, it's nice to have words from one of the best cg artists around.

 

What?!? far from true...

[anvaraziz]

"far from true"........... noooooooooooo

 

man im also a fan of urs,,,,,,,,,,

 

waitng for the interior DVD ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,