Why go Max over Viz?

[Geoffc]

I'm about to purchase a copy of Viz 06 for architectural renderings.

 

Before I pull the trigger and drop a bunch of $$$, can anyone tell me any major reasons why I should spend more and go to Max?

 

I really don't want to spend that cash, then later regret not having some features or plugins for max that I cant get for Viz.

 

 

Or for 99% of all arch rendering and flybys am I good with Viz?

 

Thanks!

[Bugga_Guy]

Some say that there is not much difference between the two, to some degree this is true if you are doing only renderings, but if you plan to do animations then you may want to consider Max. Max has better tools for animating procedural maps, can handle larger files over the backburner, works well with plugins while it will not with viz (ie dreamscape), makes characters (non rpc) move around the scene with character studio etc.

[ShaunDon]

It all depends how sophisticated you want to be in your animations, definitely. I guess the question is what level are you at now and where do you see yourself being in a few years? If you're just starting out with max or viz, you may well be fine for awhile on viz and save the extra expense until you feel you've outgrown it.

 

Tough choice, but I worked for years on viz and never knew I was missing anything.

 

Shaun

[hussein]

hi all ... in viz you can not do any (( paramartic)) animation . material ,lighting ,modifiers , IK , etc.... so only transform animation ..

[JamesTaylor]

in my opion Viz will be fine for 99% of arch viz animations. equally if your purchasing the upgrade package of viz you'll find that any new features tend to arrive in max and then filter thro to viz in the following release.

 

I'm currently working for a large and well established 3d company and we use viz rarther than max.

[Noise]

Viz is good for arch viz but, max entertains so much more - games, fx, vr etc...

 

In my opinion, if you are serious about your visualisation - Max. Viz is stripped down for a reason.

[Fernando Lino]

instead to spend the money in Max for Architectural Visualization I'd get VIZ+Vray+Sketchup+Photoshop for almost at the same price than Max

 

Check with different re-sellers, they don't have the same prices, when I bought my VIZ I paid 1,300 plus 245 for subscription program and the retail price in another resellers was 1,800

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

if you want to have doors open, car driving, people walking, the sun moving,or anytghing like that, you need to use Max instead of Viz, otherwise you will be animating old school style.

...stop frame animation on a computer sound like fun?

...also, i thought i read somewhere that Viz doesn't allowanimated textures either.

...another option might be to purchase an older version of Max. i am not sure what the licensing restrictions are, but chance are you will not need most of the features. however, if you are modeling with another application, i highly recommend getting a version of max that has FileLink.

 

edit : turns out i was wrong on almost everything i said.

[lambros]

Hmmm. I bought Viz 2006+Vray+Maxwell. Viz cannot handle sub-object animation, does not have biped + character studio, particles, forces. Texture parameters cannot be animated.

You can do animation with viz. You can open door and do stuff like that, and you can also animate light parameters. Viz has radiosity but does not have lightracer. There is a sole IK option, you can wire parameters, assign controllers and constraints.

CONCLUSION: You can get Viz and do all architectural animation you like. Perhaps you cannot animate a fountain because there are no particles, and you cannot rig and animate humans. But you can do all the rest. So, unless you need to do "extreme" archviz animation, go get it. I had no problem whatsoever...

[LukeC]

File linking is actually available in VIZ which is handy for importing models from cad etc.

 

I use VIZ for visualisations for an engineering firm, and you can achieve perfectly good work and effects through viz. I spose, like everyone has said, that it depends on your use.

 

We are, however, currently upgrading to max and a key reason for that is how easily max can throw around a large number of polys, as apposed to viz. Models that were slow and unmanageable in viz, are smooth to work with in max. But this also took us a year and a half to really hit that problem and we are just upgrading max. There are a few other deciding factors aswell.

 

If money is a deciding factor in all this, i'd suggest viz, it is perfectly fine for what it does and more then likely will suit you fine. You can always upgrade down the track.

 

You could also get the demo's of both and test for yourself which you prefer.

[AJLynn]

My school uses Viz and I had to teach it, which was the first time in a while I'd used it. Actually I was expecting to be a lot more annoyed at it than I was. Very similar when you're not animating. It was Viz2005, it worked fine with VRay Free and only a couple things I didn't like about it - by default it fills all the material slots with blank Architecturals (not $2000 worth of annoying), it didn't have Edit Poly (but it did have Edit Mesh which was fine) and when you go into mesh editing there are some time-saving buttons that Max has that it didn't, like select loop, but again, not $2000 worth of annoying.

 

But, really, C4D is better (Maybe not for everybody - the Autocad compatibility is really bad.)

[notamondayfan]

it didn't have Edit Poly

 

???

 

im confused.

 

anyway im using vis now, but learnt to use max 1st. they r basically simular, but vis has limited animation.

the only prob ive found really is importing models that r fine 2 use in max, but dont import into vis.

[Geoffc]

Great replies guys, thanks.

 

After reading thru them, I probably still going to go with Viz, partly due to what ppl earlier mentioned of the ability to get Viz + Vray for ~$2100. Plus, I need to save some $$$ to get the latest Acad (I'm still on 2000).

 

As much as I love the idea of animating real characters and water features, I must come to grips with the fact that my personal goal is to continue being an architect and designer, not a cg animator (although the advanced stuff really interests me). I just will not have the time to learn and use most of the higher end Max stuff.

 

 

 

 

I guess I'm mostly concerned with modeling and material tools that Max may have that Viz does not. Any more thoughts on that?

 

 

And, does Viz have any direct linking w/ Acad models that may actually be better than Max? Or is this feature identical?

 

Thanks again.

[Brian Cassil]

The only advantage that max would have in modeling, materials, or file linking would be that the new version of max comes out approximately 6 mo before the new version of viz, so you get the new tools ealier.

[Brian Cassil]

Sorry for the double post but I just thought of something else. Reactor, comes with max and not viz and is actually usefull for modeling things like sheets, drapes, and even terrain.

[theqball]

I’m a bit late into this discussion but here are the numbers for others that might be curious….

These are current suggested retail prices and some resellers do offer discounts…

Migration to Max from any version of Viz is $1,495.

Upgrades on Viz are $445

Subscription on Viz is $245 /year

Subscription on Max is $440 / year

So if you are upgrading, for an extra $1050 and $195 per year you get….

• New technology sooner (aprox 6mo currently)
  
• Subscription updates (I don’t think there has been one for Viz yet)
  
• Sub-object animation (any spinner in Max can be animated, some workarounds for this in viz but often gets in the way)
  
• Pflow (great for rpc placement and random trees)
  
• Reactor (other than water it’s probably not so useful to the architecture market, but cool tricks can be done to help modeling certain things)
  
• Hair/Fur (makes very nice grass and culturals)
  
• Cloth (very nice for modeling drapes, canopies, and other organic cloth objects)
  
• Character Studio (real 3d people moving and interacting with your environment, www.urbansimulations.com)
  
• Enhanced Combustion integration (more render elements, and combustion material support)
  
• Normal Mapping (you’ll probably start to see more of this in the future, great way to speed up renders)
  
• MR 8 additional buckets in DBR
  
• MR Unlimited network rendering via backburner

That’s most of the big one’s and in no particular order. Don’t get me wrong Viz is a great tool for architectural renderings, I just wanted to point out the cost differences really aren’t as big as many perceive and there really is a lot more to offer in Max. The decision between Max and Viz shouldn’t be a pricing issue and should really lie in what type of work do you need to do today and what type of work do you want to do in the future. If you see yourself doing nothing but still renderings then Viz is a great tool for you. If you want to push past that and eventually do more complex things then you might be happier with Max.

The interfaces are 99% identical and there is even a Custom UI switcher to make Max’s defaults the same. So, there is no learning curve to switch to max just continuing to learn new things as we all do anyway. Plus one added bonus… if you migrate to max from viz you still can use your viz license, so it’s sorta a 2 for 1 deal.

Disclaimer: All pricing and crossgrade programs are current as of today’s date (12/13/2005) and may not be valid in future pricing.

[Geoffc]

Shane,

 

Those are some pretty convincing arguments.

 

I've called few more places about pricing, and this is the best I've gotten so far in So. Cal:

 

viz $1450 + 245 = 1695

max - $3195 including the subscription

 

that's $1500 in my case between the two.

not close, but not necessarily too far.

 

But, I still will need to consider a rendering program such as Vray also, right?

 

 

BTW, man that UrbanSimulations site is amazing. Their work, website and overall production is some of the best I've seen. Thanks for the link!

[theqball]

I'm guessing you were pricing new seats of either, lets not get into a pricing comparison on a public board (it will hurt our reseller’s business), but yes it's a little different for a new seat than what I posted for an upgrade. Also, these prices are in USD and will vary by region, sorry for not making that clear to those in other countries.

Other rendering solutions and plugins are always an option. I wouldn’t suggest going right out there and buying one upfront. I would wait until you know you will need it for a particular project. Max and Viz both come with the trusty old scanline render and the very powerful Mental Ray render. There are many other 3rd party renders out there like V-Ray, Brazil, Final Gather, and Maxwell to name a few. All are good for particular reasons and you will find users that are big fans of each of them. If you are new to visualization then I wouldn’t suggest necessarily going down this road (3dr party renders) in the beginning, there is more than enough for you to discover and learn in the base product without adding complexities of third party tools. I personally add lots of various third party tools to the freelance work I do but only do on an as needed basis. Many of these plugins simply enhance the functionality of both max and viz and make it easier to get from point A to point B.

…and yes I am a little biased because I work for Autodesk, M&E

[nschulz]

I have a quick questions related to this topic. Can you or has anyone installed both Viz 6 and Max 8 on the same machine? I have the opportunity for both the one concern I have is opening other people's file who do not have Max but just Viz.

[theqball]

you can install both Max and Viz on the same machine.

 

you can open files from versions with like cores, ie....

Viz2005 Max6 w/ design extention and Max7

Viz2006 Max7.5 w/ viz extention and Max8

 

any newer version will load older verions, ie...

Max8 will load Viz2005 files and so on