Dan J Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 I'm trying to get a handle on a decent route to go in specifying a new system for an office workstation, any help or info would be great. I've read through a few of the threads here on the forum, but still needing help. Just clearifying- Xeons are 32 bit and have HT Optrons are 64 bit and have Hyper Transport (is this HT same as intels?) both come in dual core flavors and can be mounted on dual mobo's???? Questions- -Which outperforms others with Viz? -Which is the best cost/performance value? -Can I spec a system with single core / dual mobo and save the $1,000+ on each cpu now, then wait for the price to come down or more $$ from clients later to upgrade? -Which cpu X or O would be the best for the last Q? -Typically how much ram should I spec for each type of cpu? -Any comments on refurbished systems for Dell, Hp, IBM, Sun...?? I'm currently using a dual xeon 2.4ghz HPxw6000 w/2g Ram, NVS 980 quadro and SCSI HD. This has been working well, but I'm trying to move lighting solutions along more quickly and increase animation rendering times. Thanks for answering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Erm, ok- HyperThreading is when 1 CPU pretends to be 2 - it isn't really, but it makes it a bit more efficient with multiple threads. HyperTransport is part of the AMD frontside architecture that has nothing to do with HyperThreading. Opterons are hella fast. What you have now is pretty fast, you won't get anything faster in a single CPU core. Dual-core is good - 2 CPUs in one package, using 1 socket on the MB (and some MBs can support 2 dual-cores, for quad CPUs). AMD duals are better than Intel in all testing, so go with an AthlonX2 system (if you're on a budget) or an Opteron (check the specs - the naming scheme isn't very good, some Opterons are dual core and some aren't). If you get one with 2 CPU slots and one dual-core CPU and you've checked that the MB supports dual-duals, you can upgrade later with a second identical CPU. Same goes for single core CPUs, but dual have way better price/performance (consider the cost of the rest of the computer - you double the cost effectiveness of it when you double the render power). Which CPU type you choose doesn't really effect RAM amount. Get 2 gigs. I'm a big fan of the Dell refurbs. I've owned 4, 2 currently, both Precisions. Got them on Ebay, I'd tell you what they cost but you wouldn't believe me. If you want to increase your animation render times, PM me, I've got some hardware I can sell you that's a lot slower And, Quadro NVS cards aren't 3D workstation cards. A Quadro FX would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voltaire_ira Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 go for the opterons.im now using a motherboard with two opteronsx2..when rendering i have four buckets using vray and mentalray. im using 2 pcs opteron 275 dualcores in an asus K8n-dl board with 2 gb corsair ddr400 corsair ecc rams. very very fast and stable..faster if you use raid 0 for the paging file! i use nvidia 7800 gtx card..performs great in heavy poly scenes..much cheaper too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyjj Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 I use dual xeon 3.2 ghz in my system. Previously i'd been using a AMD Athlon 1300 which I think was 1.1ghz?... anyway, the speed increase isnt as epic as i thought. To be fair my scenes have taken on a new level of complexity, but I still spend a great deal of time waiting. With that in mind, the differences in performance between xeons and opterons seems pretty insignificant. I would choose Intels every time simply because they are better for running a greater range of software. Lets face it, you'll want to use your machine for more than just 3d rendering (i assume) and that's where the problems my friends have had with AMDs really show up (namely conflicts and crashing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan J Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 Very helpful answers, thanks. I think it will be difficult to get the new company (first timers in the 3d realm) to fork over the near $7,000 for the dual core dual cpu system. Does anyone know of either X or O dual mobo's that can spec'd for the single core X or O then later upgraded to the Dual cores? Andrew, thanks for the confirmation of what I was trying to figure out. I like the refurb's and the last 2x Xeon system was one and the savings was great. If I were buying, I'd consider your offer. The new boss want new with warranty and direct purchase. Thank though. John, what kind of pricing are you coming up with for that system? Tom, I hadn't heard much about the conflicts with the other software. I have a dual cpu AMD (older) system at home and hadn't noticed anything. Has anyone else noticed software issues with AMD's dual cores? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecton3d Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Does anyone know of either X or O dual mobo's that can spec'd for the single core X or O then later upgraded to the Dual cores? Tom, I hadn't heard much about the conflicts with the other software. I have a dual cpu AMD (older) system at home and hadn't noticed anything. Has anyone else noticed software issues with AMD's dual cores? Thanks again. Tyan K8WE: http://tyan.com/products/html/tigerk8we.html I would have liked to have a dual proc, dual core opteron system from the start, but like you I couldn't initially shell out the extra $$$ for the dual cores. I ended up getting a system from BOXX with the K8WE and 2 - opteron 248's and I intend to upgrade to dual cores soon and put the 248's into a render slave. I would like to have a little faster UI performance in Max (most UI's can only use one core), it's not horrible with the 248's but thier clock speed is only 2ghz. They render like freightrains so it's worth putting up with but you might want to snag some opties with a higher clock (250,252,254) Been using this system for 6 months and haven't noticed a single conflict related to the processors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan J Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 Daron, Thanks for the info. I thought that would be possible. Is there any issue with heat /cooling difference between the single and dual cores on the mobo? I had a rep for HP tell me that you can't swap out the singles for dual core on their dual cpu sytems because of heat/cooling problems or is he mistaken? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piotrgreg Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 nice hardware u've got fellas.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Dan: The offer was a joke since you said you wanted to increase you render time... Usually boxes from compaines like HP are less upgradeable than from companies that design with a bit more flexibility in mind - hard for me to be specific here, but a larger company is more likely to be using proprietary stuff and cutting corners here or there. Maybe with an HP the MB really isn't dual-core compatible, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were just enough space and fan to keep a single-core happy. In Boston I was always sending people to a company called PCs For Everyone that let you choose each part, and would later help you out a lot with upgrades and knew how to answer questions like "is this older case good enough to go to an Athlon64?" Tom, I'm just going to have to disagree on the AMD vs Intel point. I don't know where people get this. The AMDs are just as stable as the Intels, I've been using them for years and never had a problem. So long as you have a good MB and RAM that's spec'ed for the speed you're running it at you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan J Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 Sorry the joke passed over me. Nice try though. Last time I purchased a dual AMD mobo was through Monarch computer and had great results. I had just been trolling through the refurb's and liked the saving of $500-1500, though I would guess the trade off would be the upgrade factor. Still, does anyone know if there is a decent dual cpu mobo that will take either the single or dual core opterons? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan J Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 Sorry, the last question was answered already. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan J Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 More detailed question now- Whats the dif between the 939 and 940 sockets? In another thread on this forum some discussion was made that the 939 was the one to spec. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cH1ooo Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 AFAIK, socket 939 can support dual core and socket 940 can not... u can just change the cpu from single to double anytime, though u'll need to upgrade ur bios as well... this helps if u want to buy a lower priced single core system now, and plan to upgrade later... here also amd wins, as I haven't seen a pentium based mb that could support both single core and double core cpus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 just to put it right: XEONs are 64 bit too. at least the ones I have (2 x 3,4 GHZ). I discovered it when I installed Linux on my System... But I dont know, if 3Dsmax and MR can make a use of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 AFAIK, socket 939 can support dual core and socket 940 can not... u can just change the cpu from single to double anytime, though u'll need to upgrade ur bios as well... this helps if u want to buy a lower priced single core system now, and plan to upgrade later... here also amd wins, as I haven't seen a pentium based mb that could support both single core and double core cpus... They both support dual-core, but 939 is for Athlon64/AthlonX2 and 940 is for Opteron. 940/Opteron supports dual-dual, 939/AthlonX2 does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 just to put it right: XEONs are 64 bit too. at least the ones I have (2 x 3,4 GHZ). I discovered it when I installed Linux on my System... But I dont know, if 3Dsmax and MR can make a use of it... Also there are no real stress-tests of the common 3D/render programs we use in 64 bit, because the programs don't support 64 bit yet, so it's very hard to weigh the value of the AMD vs Intel 64-bitness. But for now at least, it does mean you can have more RAM than before (assuming you have faith in Win64). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cH1ooo Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 They both support dual-core, but 939 is for Athlon64/AthlonX2 and 940 is for Opteron. 940/Opteron supports dual-dual, 939/AthlonX2 does not. thankx for the info AJLynn. i was aware of the 939s for a while, but haven't researched fully into the opterons yet, so that's good info for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecton3d Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 AFAIK, socket 939 can support dual core and socket 940 can not... u can just change the cpu from single to double anytime, though u'll need to upgrade ur bios as well... this helps if u want to buy a lower priced single core system now, and plan to upgrade later... here also amd wins, as I haven't seen a pentium based mb that could support both single core and double core cpus... ~ that's what I did! Opteron 248's on a Thunder K8WE (S2895) I'm still waiting for the price of the dual core Opterons to come down though At the moment this is definitely the best bang for your buck! I need some damn sleep and a guiness! ~ I posted to this last week and said the same bloody thing ! At least I sit here alone laughing at myself!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonel Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 They both support dual-core, but 939 is for Athlon64/AthlonX2 and 940 is for Opteron. 940/Opteron supports dual-dual, 939/AthlonX2 does not. AMD has opterons for 939 socket, single and dual core. but looks like 14x and 16x are out of production I've got myself one 170 dualCore, works on 2.7GHz for every day use, winXP+SP2, but it may not work at that high freq. on win64 (it's a bit more sensitive to OC), haven't tried yet. ---------------------- ---------------------- scene above- vRay render: 159s for Venice@2.7 and 84s for opteron@2.7 underwater.max, 800x600 - 113s Dragon_Character_Rig, 1200x900 - 64s ---------- ---------- again, this is what one can get with 2x dual core opterons and mental ray renderer: ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/opteron-x75/index.x?pg=7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfienoakes Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 OK.. Just to clarify. I am looking to get a couple of machines, and like the idea of the AMD's. But I really want dual processors. Now, the Athlon X2 is dual core, and relatively cheap. So, is there a motherboard where I can put two of these babies in it, and run dual duals.. or .. do I have to go for for the opteron, and the 940 motherboard..?? Cheers Andy:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonel Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 yes, you do 940/Opteron supports dual-dual, 939/AthlonX2 does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfienoakes Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Thought so.. just been checking out some other sites. So one more. Would it be better to buy a configured Dell workstation with dual Xeon's, or go for a "3rd party" AMD x2 based machine. The AMD would be the cheaper of the two.. Opinions would be appreciated. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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