A big Thank You

[landrvr1]

Gents, I'm new here. Well, I've been lurking for a bit, but this is my first post. I wanted to extend a big thanks to the guys that run this forum, and everyone who takes a moment to answer questions - especially the hardware items.

 

Yesterday afternoon I placed my online order for a Dell Precision 670 workstation (Intel Xeon Dual Processor, Dual Core) and thought "hmm, maybe I should check out what folks at CGarchitect have to say. Boy-oh-boy am I glad that I did. What the hell was I thinking in NOT checking around here before ordering? I'll never know....

 

The reviews around here for the Xeons were scathing! haha. Many posters were kind enough to provide links to performance tests which more than backed up everyone's claims that AMD was the way to go with processors.

Several calls and transfers later, I was able to cancel my Dell order this morning. Whew. After a bit more checking around, I discovered Boxx. Did a bit more research at other sites, and could not find a single negative comment about those guys.

 

Placed my order this afternoon for:

Boxx 7400 workstation

Dual Opteron Model 270 (Dual Core)

3GB DDR400 ECC (4 DIMMS)

NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400 128MB DDR

120GB 7,200rpm Serial ATA 8MB Cache Drive

16x DVD 40x CDROM (with Nero software)

16x Dual Layer DVD±RW Writer (with Nero software)

Windows XP Professional Edition SP2

 

I'm really looking forward to this baby. I gotta give a plug to those guys: John Tobin @ Boxx was an absolute pleasure to deal with. Really took his time to explain things to me. Knew exactly what I was talking about when I described what I needed to do with the machine and, best of all, didn't try to sell me something more expensive that I didn't need. Best of all, it's a workstation that's expandable and seems to be able to grow into the 64bit arena when the time is right.

 

Thanks go particularly to CGarchitect mods Strat and Maxer; whose comments were invaluable

[Hazdaz]

Even before reading the rest of your post, when I saw you write "I placed my online order for a Dell Precision 670 workstation (Intel Xeon Dual Processor, Dual Core)" I immediately thought to myself "Um, why did he run off and do that!?!" :lol:

.

Looks like you made a good overall choice on the new system - I do however question your choice of videocard. Nothing wrong with the FX1400, but it is getting long in the tooth. I would definitly have recommend a high-end consumer card for like 1/2 the money and probably better performance too.

[STRAT]

great choice m8.

 

i got xeons in work because a couple of years ago when i bought them the opterons were well dodgy. how things change. saying that, i'm still well please with my machines today

 

(altho at home i'm an AMD man )

[Tim Nelson]

Hehe, you should also cancel your order for the 7400 and get the 5400 series instead. Your money will go much further and you could probably get the 280's for the same price as you are paying for the 270's right now.

 

But Boxx really is a great company.

[skala67]

just got the dual xeon - dual cores 2.8 and actually quite happy with the performance...i'll keep update if anything goes wrong or if they keep performing well..

[landrvr1]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

 

I too am a bit nervous about the vid card. Hazdaz, what would you recommend in terms of a 'high-end' consumer card? I wonder if Boxx could leave out the FX1400, and give me a bit off the price? I believe that I can just add another card in addition to the FX1400, but not sure what the point would be there.

 

Tim Nelson: Your comment about getting the 5400 with dual 280s has got me intrigued. I did a bit of math, and it would save just under $200 by going that route instead. Hmm. Crap. I'm never going to get a new workstation! Is more expandability the only advantage of the 7400 over the 5400?

[NOOXY]

hey man sound like a really really cool system...i'll be keeping it in consideration cause i'm thinking bout getting myself a workstation at home...

 

ps. what will you be doing with a system like this by the way??

[landrvr1]

hey man sound like a really really cool system...i'll be keeping it in consideration cause i'm thinking bout getting myself a workstation at home...

 

ps. what will you be doing with a system like this by the way??

 

Heh. 3DMax rendering/animation of interior spaces, bit of Premiere, bit of After Effects, bit of this, bit of that!

[landrvr1]

great choice m8.

 

i got xeons in work because a couple of years ago when i bought them the opterons were well dodgy. how things change. saying that, i'm still well please with my machines today

 

(altho at home i'm an AMD man )

 

Wait a second! Strat I didn't put it together that YOU are Steve Leworthy! Haha. I sent you an email a few days ago after running across your site; asking you a few questions. Sorry to have been a bit of a pest....

[Hazdaz]

Well sounds like it is too late now concerning the videocard issue, but I would still have stuck with Nvidia, but gotten their top of the line conumer card - like the 7800 (+/- $300). But definitly NOT bothering with SLI, which is pointless for 3D work.

[landrvr1]

Well sounds like it is too late now concerning the videocard issue, but I would still have stuck with Nvidia, but gotten their top of the line conumer card - like the 7800 (+/- $300). But definitly NOT bothering with SLI, which is pointless for 3D work.

 

May not be too late. I'll call Boxx on Monday am and check. Perhaps they can leave off the FX1400 and give me credit. Maybe even install a 7800 in it's place..

 

Forgive my ignorance, but is SLI only good for running multiple graphics cards? Boxx only offers the Quadro FX line; which seem to be cards specifically designed for people running multiple monitors. Would that be a fair assessment? Thanks for the comments.

[AJLynn]

You don't have to drop the Quadro; the 1400 is a very good card and a decent value. Whether the 7800 would be better is something we could debate endlessly, as is the avlue of benchmarks, but scroll down and compare the Specviewperf numbers:

 

http://www.asisupport.com/ts_nvidia_geforce_7800.htm

http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_11761.html

 

Why wouldn't you want the 1400?

 

Anyway, I don't have any QuadroFX's, but I've used a lot of Quadro4's and Geforce's of that generation and there was a big enough difference that I'd still be inclined to take my 900XGL over a more recent Geforce. I upgraded my studio PC from a recent Radeon to a recent FireGL a couple months ago and it tripled the performance (both real and benchmark). I'm still a believer in the workstation cards. I can probably be convinced otherwise - run Specviewperf 8.1 on your Geforce machines and post results.

 

SLI is available for newer nVidia cards, but it's not yet useful for 3D work. Basically it uses 2 cards to split the work for games.

[landrvr1]

You don't have to drop the Quadro; the 1400 is a very good card and a decent value. Whether the 7800 would be better is something we could debate endlessly, as is the avlue of benchmarks, but scroll down and compare the Specviewperf numbers:

 

http://www.asisupport.com/ts_nvidia_geforce_7800.htm

http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_11761.html

 

Why wouldn't you want the 1400?

 

Anyway, I don't have any QuadroFX's, but I've used a lot of Quadro4's and Geforce's of that generation and there was a big enough difference that I'd still be inclined to take my 900XGL over a more recent Geforce. I upgraded my studio PC from a recent Radeon to a recent FireGL a couple months ago and it tripled the performance (both real and benchmark). I'm still a believer in the workstation cards. I can probably be convinced otherwise - run Specviewperf 8.1 on your Geforce machines and post results.

 

SLI is available for newer nVidia cards, but it's not yet useful for 3D work. Basically it uses 2 cards to split the work for games.

 

 

Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. Nothing like a quick crash course in cards. In my afternoon research here (while the below zero Chicago wind blows outside and I try to keep my fingers warm), I'm not seeing much that would point to a huge advantage of going with a Geforce over the Quadro. Maybe it's just that I'm not looking at the correct data. There's another thing that I need to consider: The Boxx workstation is designed and tested with the Quadro cards for a reason, and I gotta put a little trust that they know what they are doing.

 

Still, it's certainly worth calling Boxx to discuss the issue. Those guys don't strike me as shills for Nvidia Quadro cards (or any other item, for that matter). I'll simply ask, "Why should I go with the Quadro 1400 over a Geforce 7 series?"

[AJLynn]

Probably a good idea, they have generally knowledgeable people. I wish there were some definitive information on all of this, besides lists of benchmark scores (which are useful, but not as useful as you'd hope) and certifications (less useful even than benchmarks) - and the salespeople will probably tell you that the only products they have that are "certified" for 3DSMax are Quadro and FireGL.

 

Actually, now that I think about it and check, Quadro and FireGL are the only cards available for the Boxx 7400 and 5400. If you really want a Geforce card, you would need to buy the Boxx with their cheapest card ($430 less than the 1400) and buy the 7800GT (minimum $250 on Newegg) for a $180 savings. But I still like the Quadro, and at the prices you're spending for a dual-dual Boxx I can't see passing on the Quadro to take 5% off the price.

[tecton3d]

Probably a good idea, they have generally knowledgeable people. I wish there were some definitive information on all of this, besides lists of benchmark scores (which are useful, but not as useful as you'd hope) and certifications (less useful even than benchmarks) - and the salespeople will probably tell you that the only products they have that are "certified" for 3DSMax are Quadro and FireGL.

Actually, now that I think about it and check, Quadro and FireGL are the only cards available for the Boxx 7400 and 5400. If you really want a Geforce card, you would need to buy the Boxx with their cheapest card ($430 less than the 1400) and buy the 7800GT (minimum $250 on Newegg) for a $180 savings. But I still like the Quadro, and at the prices you're spending for a dual-dual Boxx I can't see passing on the Quadro to take 5% off the price.

 

I absolutely agree... go with the quadro

 

also, BOXX may get a little shaky when you take a system built by them and slap a consumer product inside it... make sure you know what that will do to your warranty!

 

There's another thing that I need to consider: The Boxx workstation is designed and tested with the Quadro cards for a reason, and I gotta put a little trust that they know what they are doing.

 

a good point

[STRAT]

Wait a second! Strat I didn't put it together that YOU are Steve Leworthy! Haha. I sent you an email a few days ago after running across your site; asking you a few questions. Sorry to have been a bit of a pest....

 

hey, no being a pest atall m8, dont worry about it.

 

i just hope i was polite enough to reply to you. had so much on recently i cant remember

[Hazdaz]

also, BOXX may get a little shaky when you take a system built by them and slap a consumer product inside it... make sure you know what that will do to your warranty!

???

.

Why?

I build computers all the time and would see zero reason why any computer would be "a little shaky." BOXX doesn't use any components that you couldn't just buy yourself and use to build your own PC (for cheaper too). Not that I am ranking on them, but please don't make it sound like it's some 'black art.'

.

Also, I am going against the grain here and say the QUADRO is a waste of money. I've owned one - and totaly don't see the reason to buy another one. ESPESIALLY if you are a 3DS MAX user - the whole reason to get a QUADRO is to run the MAXtreme drivers, and the speed increase with regular olde D3D with MAXtreme is negligable - don't get me wrong, there is a speed increase, but not like in years past. Back in MAX 4, 5 and even 6 there was a HUGE speed increase with the MAXtreme drivers. Now - not for much.

[landrvr1]

???

.

Why?

I build computers all the time and would see zero reason why any computer would be "a little shaky." BOXX doesn't use any components that you couldn't just buy yourself and use to build your own PC (for cheaper too). Not that I am ranking on them, but please don't make it sound like it's some 'black art.'

.

Also, I am going against the grain here and say the QUADRO is a waste of money. I've owned one - and totaly don't see the reason to buy another one. ESPESIALLY if you are a 3DS MAX user - the whole reason to get a QUADRO is to run the MAXtreme drivers, and the speed increase with regular olde D3D with MAXtreme is negligable - don't get me wrong, there is a speed increase, but not like in years past. Back in MAX 4, 5 and even 6 there was a HUGE speed increase with the MAXtreme drivers. Now - not for much.

 

Hazdaz, I think he meant a 'little shaky' in terms of what it would do to the Boxx warranty if I took out their Quadro card and replaced it with one of my choosing. Actually, I'm not certain where Boxx stands with their warranty once you start replacing components. It's probably okay, but I just can't take the risk. I'd love to build my own workstation, but I just don't have the time - I've never done it, and I can only imagine how much of my hair I'd pull out on the 2nd and 3rd attempts to get it all right!

 

I see what you are saying about a negligable speed difference vs. cost benefit. Here's an interesting page on performance comparisons for the Nvidia line:

http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3321&page=3

 

The FX1400 gives a respectable showing. Once I get the Boxx, I'll see how it goes. If I'm truly not happy with the performance of the FX1400, there's always the option to explore options!

 

ps. I'd actually love to make the attempt to build my own PC. One thought is that come Spring, I'd like to try and build a render machine to compliment my existing Dell. Seems like a good place to start - the machine wouldn't have to have all the bells and whistles, and if I fail at least I'm still in business.

[Hazdaz]

Dude, just keep in mind, that the 3dsmax-03 benchmark (far as I know) that they are using is based on components from 3DS MAX3.1 (a version that is +/- 5 years old - and like I mentioned above, previous versions of MAX saw WAY more acceleration with a QUADRO card)

http://www.spec.org/gpc/opc.static/3dsmax03.html

.

Good luck with the BOXX system - I am sure you'll be happy with it, but ~$800 versus ~$200 is a chunk of change big enough to take a 2nd or even 3rd look.

[tecton3d]

Hazdaz, I think he meant a 'little shaky' in terms of what it would do to the Boxx warranty if I took out their Quadro card and replaced it with one of my choosing. Actually, I'm not certain where Boxx stands with their warranty once you start replacing components. It's probably okay, but I just can't take the risk.

 

~ yup, like was said earlier... they build and test systems with specific components so they can estimate how they will perform under real world conditions and so when something does go wrong they can fix it quickly and efficiently. IMO - You can't expect them to honor a warranty for a component they don't test and integrate.