How to react on "stolen" ideas in the gallery?

[Sascha Berz]

Hi guys,

 

I want to know your opinion to this affinity:

 

http://www.vismasters.com/technicalnotes.cfm?submitid=372

 

and

 

http://www.cgarchitect.com/gallery/image_spotlight.asp?galleryID=33560

 

 

I really don't want to be a kill-joy and I know that apprenticeship is important for young 3d designers, but if I would "copy" the idea of someone I would have the decency to note that in the image info text.

 

Please tell me if I am wrong and I will try to think my opinion over.

 

regards, sascha

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

i think you have a legit argument, but you can also look at it this way. imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

the head of our graphics dept. once told me that he considers it a compliment when someone flat out steals his work. i don't mean just mimic, i mean flat out steal.

 

i am sure others will want to prosecute him, but i am not so sure. i have seen several renderings over the years that mimicked scenes from movies, mimicked paintings, replicas of famous photos of architecture, etc...

 

if it is really bugging you, maybe ask him to credit you with image based on... or something like that.

[Justin Hunt]

It is a great concern, unfortunaly it is also comes with the territory of posting images on a public forum. This is why I always get permission from my clients before I post, just in cast there is "sensitive" information therein.

 

I also see it a a compiment, execpt when they do it better . I agree with Crazy homeless guy in asking for credit. As a learning exercise there is little wrong with coping, but once one is good enough then it's time to do your own stuff. If the copies are being used to commecial gain, then I think you have grounds to be upset.

 

JHV

Justin Hunt Visualisation

[Ernest Burden III]

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

 

That's exactly what I was going to say. I've seen some of my techniques picked up by people on this board, and I couldn't be prouder of them. I see it as a measure of my success here to see others learn from what I've done and apply it to their work. That's why I post pictures and make comments--to encourage others.

 

You have been imitated, not copied. Its not one of those times where someone posts someone else's work as their own.

[ecastillor]

agree on that...Once a client liked a render of a house I designed so much, he asked me to design some house facades for him....

[brightlight]

I think that it would have been courteous to have mentioned the

original source.

Maybe there should be a list of ethical guidelines

for the 'professional' illustrator. I used to be a member of a professional

design body, but although they charged too much and provided little service,

they did publish common work procedures. The digital world nowadays is

vast and would be hard to regulate........

 

The situation (and difficulties) could be:

1. Someone creates a respectable (says who?) organisation (guild?)for visualisers.

2. Entry is by submitting your portfolio (how do you guage quality?)

3. You pay a fee for administration costs (necessary?).

4. Codes of conduct are agreed upon and distributed.

5. Those who break the rules are ejected (who cares, will the client?)

 

I guesse it'll never happen

[briantone]

I have to admit that the similarity is pretty striking!

You should take note that in the details of the image he mentioned that the rendering was created as a way of "testing texturing." Clearly he saw the way you handled things and thought it was a great way to experiment and build his own knowledge.

Great image, though! Glad that someone imitated you or I would never have seen it.

[luckytohaveher]

What do you mean stolen!!! That is an insult!!!

 

Except for the model, lighting, textures, and technique there is virtually nothing in common between the two....

 

YOU DEFINITELY DESERVE A REFERENCE AND SOME CREDIT! THIS IS HIGHLY STOLEN ON ITS FACE.

 

I would see if you could get an email thread going with the 'creator' of the other image. If there is any b!@#! on the guy he will either own up to the theft or give you complete credit...

 

There is another critical issue here. If the rendering where hand drawn, and you claimed a copyright, couldn't you make a copyright claim for up to $150K or so? Well, can't you make a claim anyway? I noticed the below claim "©2001-2004 All rights reserved." The other image has a name on it.

 

I am not saying to actually sue -- maybe you could just mention the concept and get it didacted. Or you could just give it up as a artistic 'win' in the community.

 

"Do you want the red pill or the blue pill." Morpheus, The Matrix (notice the disclaimer and credit)...

[stefkeB]

The likeness is indeed there, but in your original image there is no information given about your actual source either. Is this a visualization project? Is this also architectural design? Is the architect quoted? Are you the designer? Or are you (or your company) working for an architect as consultant?

 

I don't want to dismiss the question, since it is valid, but it's pretty hard to make claims as your original image has not much more then the name of the company as a clue.

 

By the way, a direct personal note to the other artists might be enough to settle the confusion.

 

Great image, though

[IC]

I wouldn't get too uptight about it.

All I think is wrong here is the lack of manners in not crediting your original.

 

p.s. On CGTalk recently someone posted a copy of one of zuliban's renders thinking it was a photograph.

[notamondayfan]

i could understand where this arguement is coming from, but personally id only be mad if the guy had literally stolen my files, rendered out an exact copy, then claimed it was his own work. all this guy is guilty of is lack of imagination.

although saying that, i think we all go "oh i wonder if i could create that".

think if you post an image, you should state how sensitive it is, because this is a public forum. would b a shame to limit what you want to post, becuase a lot of the images are really good, and inspiring.

 

imo if you use another image for you own work you should state where u found the image.

[Fran]

This guy has been inspired by your work and created something of his own. He should have given kudos though.

 

I've had this happen to me. No kudos. Oh well.

[davistalexander]

I don't think he stole your work.... if he did then he would of posted the exact same image.... like some we have seen here.....he just imitated you:D

How many times have "we" seen an iamge in a book and copied it for practice,

or to build our portfolio... you don't hear the owners of the magazine or book complaining "Mr/Ms/Mrs XXX stole our images" s a matter of fact.. i belive that such images are printed to be imitated...

[Ernest Burden III]

He should have given kudos though.

 

I've had this happen to me. No kudos.

 

 

If there isn't a packaged snack food called "Kudos" then there really ought to be. Something sweet but ultimately unsatisfying. Nabisco could make it.

[Fran]

Kudos is a snack bar. I didn't get one of them either. Everyone who inspires someone else should receive a snack bar from the person they've inspired.

[Ernest Burden III]

Everyone who inspires someone else should receive a snack bar from the person they've inspired.

 

I'll get yours into the mail, then.

[IC]

We have a saying in the UK for when someone boasts about something (unimpressive) they have done:

 

"What do you want, a f***ing biscuit?"

 

Nice.

[Sascha Berz]

First of all, thanks for the comments.

 

@travis (and the other easy guys) - Your point of view makes sense and saves my nerves. Well it seems I have to work on me to be cool like that.

 

@Ted - Your first thoughts were like mine. Maybe I overacted but I think theres an unsaid law in the creative scene that says: "Don't copy".

 

In my early 3d years I tried to orientate myself to great designers, naturally, but when the done images looked like some others work I never have had posted it.

 

@davis - I didn't say that he has stolen my work, then he would be a theft. I meant he has stolen my idea. Not a very great one, I know But it was mine

 

Ok, I will come down now. The most of you told me to see it like a compliment for my work. So I will give my best to take it like that.

 

I will write him an email about that. Then he will consider this point the next time.

 

Thank you all for the psychotherapy

regards, sascha

[Sawyer]

Keep in mind that I really don't think he made any money off your idea. I think if he took your idea and sold it that might be more upsetting. Really I look at magazines daily for "inspiration" and if I see something cool I will copy it as best as I can.

 

I think Jeff could make a mint if he had a Kudos section. Or a "guy flowers" section. You have someone help you out send them a beer. Someone writes a really cool tutorial have a microbrew sent to their home.

[aaron-cds]

I'm sorry, but what was stolen? The idea of a rectalinear living room with a concrete wall? The idea of the sun lighting the room through a large window? The idea of using couches for seating?

 

If you invented loft style living rooms with large expanses of glass, then your lawyer is going to be very busy sueing alot of architecture firms . I'm pretty sure you didn't invent the idea of sun coming through a window to light a room either.

 

I can't see how you think your work was stolen or copied. Immitated yes, but stolen or copied? The only thing that was stolen was the idea of space and light, which I'm sure you did not invent. The architecture and the furniture is different from your rendering. That is clear to see.

 

Flattery is in order here, not discontentment.

[Sascha Berz]

@aaron - I don't know wich word of "How to react on "stolen" ideas in the gallery?" you do not understand but I will tell you exclusively:

 

I never said he had stolen my WORK And YES the interior design of the loft was based on my ideas. I put the word stolen in quotation marks to soften this word. You named it immitate, well that's a matter of opinion.

 

And again: If he had stolen my work I wouldn't ask in this professional forum what to do or how to think about that. I only wanted to know if someone have had a similar situation and if I should do something in this special case.

 

I hope that's clearly now. Maybe my not-so-good english caused some confusion on my intention.

 

regards, Sascha

[aaron-cds]

You're right, I didn't mean to say "work". I meant to say "ideas". If you read the rest of my post you can see the point I'm making about "stolen ideas"

 

What I really mean to say is that a shoe-box shaped room is not an idea that can be claimed by anyone. Your design is not unique. Therefore, there is no idea to steal.

 

What is your "idea" that you thought was stolen, borrowed, immitated or whatever you want to call it? Please explain what it is you think is your "big idea".

 

Create a space and then you can complain about someone stealing it. Four walls, a floor and a ceiling do not constitute a unique idea, neither does the furniture arrangement that you chose.

 

Your accusation would be similar to BMW accusing VW because their cars are the same design. The difference is in the details.

 

I'm not trying to be mean, that's just pure architectural criticism.

[4DM]

I think the other guy was a bit daft to post this up publically.

 

By all means a newbie can copy the work of superior artists, after all, that's how the classical artists used to train.

 

But to post it here is not a good idea, it's a small world, and really does his reputation more harm than good.

 

I suspect it would be an idea for him to remove it from the gallery.

 

However, one thing I would say, although the image is inferior in almost every other way, is that his treatment of the sheers is better, IMO.

 

Sorry!

 

Cheers,

 

D.

[Sascha Berz]

Sorry Aaron, in your point of view you could be right. I didn't want to become abusive. Let's end this discussion.

 

Most people did understand my question and replied constructive comments and I feel happy about that. I see I was a little overhasty with the title. The next time someone orientates on my work I will be cool and take it like a flattery.

 

regards, Sascha

[aaron-cds]

No hard feelings here. I may have read too much into your title. Sorry.