Athlon mobile 64 X2 vs 64 FX?

[Ernest Burden III]

I was just pricing laptops and have a processor choice between the:

Athlon 64 X2 4200+

Athlon 64 X2 4600+

Athlon 64 FX 60

 

working with 2GB ram, probably the 32 bit XP-Pro and a Quadro FX Go1400 256MB

 

any thoughts?

[DennisHolland]

Hi Ernest,

 

I think you must make a choice between ultragood and ultimate. Since the least capable is still awesome, shouldn't it be best if you go for the lowest price > best graphics card? Especially when the difference between the 4200 and 4600 is a couple of hundred (if not thousand) bucks?

 

If I should make the choice, it would be the 4200, and pump it up (money saved) with the best videocard(s) you can get and 4Gb Ram.

 

Good luck,

Dennis

[Ernest Burden III]

If I should make the choice, it would be the 4200, and pump it up (money saved) with the best videocard(s) you can get and 4Gb Ram.

 

Thanks. The video choices are various ATI or G-Force or this one Quadro one, and I'll go with the Quadro. RAM can't be more than 2GB now. Maybe later it'll be possible to add it.

 

So it's really just down to the CPUs I think. The prices FX is about $600 over the 4200+ I was just wondering if there was anything especially important about the two processor lines, the X2 and now the FX?

[Christopher Nichols]

Just curious... what company laptop?

[Greg Hess]

Ernest,

 

The cpu's are...

 

2.0 ghz (4200+) [512k l2 cache] x2

2.2 ghz (4600+) [512k l2 cache] x2

2.6 ghz (FX-60) [1 meg l2 cache] x2

 

The FX has a massive price increase because it is multiplier unlocked. It's specifically targeted to the overclocker ethusiast. Hmm I just realized you said mobile...I'll have to look this back up again. (Those are for the desktop chips)

[Christopher Nichols]

Ernest... if you are looking at those for a laptop similar this one:

 

http://www.pctorque.com/builder.php?type=96

 

be aware that those laptops are insane, and are filled with hardware that is designed for desktops not laptops. Sager makes them, as well as some other Clevo rip offs (boxx, etc...) They run super hot, to the point that they sometimes break, burn, etc... they have a battery life of around 10 mins. It is designed for gamers that must have the most powerful laptop possible, but doesn't care about stability.

 

I hear that the next gen of those laptops could have not just a raided HD, but also two GPUs running in SLI... on a freaking laptop. Talk about over the top.

[AJLynn]

Do you use Max at all or are you strictly on C4D? So...

 

That FX chip is sick. If you can budget it, what the heck.... How hot can these things run before they actually catch on fire? I had one of the Powerbooks that could catch on fire several years ago, my first laptop, a grad student got all worried over the flaring up issue and gave it to me real cheap, and it worked fine for me, so I guess I lucked out. But anyway.

 

In C4D you probably won't get much or any benefit from the Quadro over the very fast gamer cards - they get the same Cinebench display scores. Have you got fRustration working properly yet? If you do you don't need to concentrate that much CPU in one laptop, have you looked at any Core Duo boxes with high end gamer cards? They'd weigh less and get better battery life. If you do go with the AMD option, why not get Win64? C4D 64 is something like 20-30% faster.

[Ernest Burden III]

Just curious... what company laptop?

 

Boxx

 

You're saying my laptop, if not my lap, will end up in flames?

Great.

 

I put my specs into the link you had and it came in about $500 less, though I like Boxx as a company so I'm fine with paying a bit more for doing business with them.

 

I don't do a lot of work at client's offices, nut when I do I want my own software on my own machine. Also, I can use the extra CPU power to render on while in my studio. This is expensive for 'renderblades' but serves several purposes.

 

I'll ask the guy at Boxx about the Flaming Laps.

[AJLynn]

I'm not saying it will actually catch on fire, but it will run very hot with almost no battery life. You'll want one of those cooling fan bases for it, and plan to only use it plugged in. These days what I'd want would be a Core Duo box with a high end 256MB gamer card, and there aren't actually a lot of those available, but something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834115226

 

Not sure how long it will take for Boxx to make one.

[Christopher Nichols]

Boxx

 

You're saying my laptop, if not my lap, will end up in flames?

Great.

 

I put my specs into the link you had and it came in about $500 less, though I like Boxx as a company so I'm fine with paying a bit more for doing business with them.

 

I don't do a lot of work at client's offices, nut when I do I want my own software on my own machine. Also, I can use the extra CPU power to render on while in my studio. This is expensive for 'renderblades' but serves several purposes.

 

I'll ask the guy at Boxx about the Flaming Laps.

 

If I were you Ernest, I would really look into the reason that you looking at getting a laptop like that. If you are planning on using it as your primary rendering machine and doing some serious gaming on it... OK... Also, you may not realize that it come in at around 12+ lbs... and don;t forget that you need to carry aroud that cooling tray with you.

 

However, if you want a machine that is plenty fast for every day use, can render in fairly good time, about 40% to 50% lighter, as a battery life of around 3 to 5 hour. Look at getting one with a centrino proc. duo or no duo, the centrino is an awesome proc for laptops. My 2.0ghz proc runs on par with a 3.4ghz p4 (based on Vray's benchmarks test scene). Sure it is slower then a top of the line fx60, but it is a lot more versital. Plus I don't risk the 3rd degree burns.... and it is cheaper.

 

Knowing you, you probably would never buy a Dell, but you can see that Dell's top of the line mobile workstation (even their portable gaming computers), all come with Centrinos. I love AMD for workstations and desktops, but Centrino is still the top mobile proc IMHO (at least for now).

[AJLynn]

Also (I tried to post this earlier but had some problem with software and people on Dugge's forum and NL scooped me) - Apple just released their own software package for dual-booting XP on an Intel Mac, including drivers for the ATI card, Airport and Bluetooth. I figure this makes a MacBook Pro the best PC laptop on the market - you get a 2 GHz Duo, 256MB Radeon x1600, SATA hard drive, DVD burner... a lot of amenities... and it's a thin, under-6-pound packaging with decent battery life from the best industrial design department in the industry.

 

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

[bytor]

Ernest,

I have a similar P4 3.6 Ghz. based BOXX laptops with the Quadro FX Go1400. All the references to heat and battery (lack thereof) life are true, and it is truly one heavy machine. That being said, I love it and wouldn't trade it for the world. It has been very stable and runs most rendering tasks with acceptable speed compared to workstations. The screen is incredible, and there is even a decent built in sound system.

A couple of warnings though!

Laptop is an eroneous term, cause it is too heavy to rest on your legs. Besides, after a short while you wouldn't have any hair or possibly skin left because of the heat! Also, the battery is truly only usefull as a short term ups - you will definitely need to be plugged in at all times. A second power supply would be adviseable as there are times when I shut down that it is too hot to put into the case to carry.

If I was buying again - I would definitely buy another BOXX and would not hesitate to give the 64 x2 or FX a try. I prefer Nvidia cards and the stabiity of the drivers. I am curious how you would set it up as part of a farm when you are at your office - would you make it the server or just part of the farm?

Good luk with your choice!

Dean

[Ernest Burden III]

I have a similar P4 3.6 Ghz. based BOXX laptops with the Quadro FX Go1400. All the references to heat and battery (lack thereof) life are true, and it is truly one heavy machine. That being said, I love it and wouldn't trade it for the world.

 

Chris is right, at 12 pounds with the second battery. The case Boxx sells has wheels. I'm glad you like yours, but the warnings are worth thinking about, obviously. I appreciate all of you poining them out.

 

 

If I were you Ernest, I would really look into the reason that you looking at getting a laptop like that. If you are planning on using it as your primary rendering machine and doing some serious gaming on it... OK...

 

I'm not a gamer, no time. So the point is extra rendering power and having a capable machine to work at a client's site, or take to my NYC office if I end up having one. Which I might.

 

Knowing you, you probably would never buy a Dell, but you can see that Dell's top of the line mobile workstation (even their portable gaming computers), all come with Centrinos. I love AMD for workstations and desktops, but Centrino is still the top mobile proc IMHO (at least for now).

 

My current laptop is a Dell. It's been great. But its 4 years old, a Pent. 700 w/512 RAM, so it's not really viable anymore for 3D work.

 

Right after I bought the old laptop, I was working on a complex site model at a client's office for whom I was doing a series of still watercolors. The project manager walked over to me and asked if it would be possible to do animation. Since I was using Lightscape I set up a camera move and 20 minutes later called him over to see realtime animation on my computer. They went for the animation instead of the stills and the extra money I made more than paid for the entire laptop.

 

I'm not saying that happens often, but it does mean that having a fully-capable machine to go can help sell rendering services.

 

Anyway, I'm trying to make a decision on this, so thanks for the advice. I'll look at some alternative products, but I do like Boxx and this is the only (AMD) laptop they make.

[Christopher Nichols]

Well, just make sure that you give your clients some earplugs too. Forgot to mention the noise on those lappies.

[Greg Hess]

Ernest,

 

Have you seen some of the benchmarks of intel's dual core laptops? I think that would give you the rendering performance you're looking for, while enabling you to stick to a "normal" laptop that doesn't break your back carrying it around.

 

I just ordered one for someone at work, and it was roughly 2k USD for a 2gb ram, dual 2.0 duocore (2x2.0 Intel Pentium M's...roughly equivilant to a dual 3.0-3.2 xeon in vray rendering under 3dsmax) with a quadro 118 meg video card (it says 256, but the rest of it uses system ram). That also included a 3 yr warranty with complete care (was a dell latitude).

 

In your situation, I'd consider emailing boxx to see if they are going to be releasing a dual core laptop shortly. Supposedly this laptop I'm getting only weighs about 6 lbs and will nearly outrender a dual 3.2 xeon... Crazy!

 

If you want, I'll be happy to run any standalone benchmarks on it (When it comes in) if you want a speed comparison (like cinebench).

 

Btw another cgarch guy buying a duocore mobile workstation @

http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/showthread.php?p=110565#post110565

[Ernest Burden III]

Ernest,

Have you seen some of the benchmarks of intel's dual core laptops? I think that would give you the rendering performance you're looking for, while enabling you to stick to a "normal" laptop that doesn't break your back carrying it around.

 

I haven't. I have a strong preference for AMD and nVidia. My current laptop is Intel/ATI, so I'm not phobic, just sceptical.

 

I priced a 'duocore' Centrino from Dell and it came in at about $3600, while the Boxx FX60 would be about $4600 and 12 pounds. Bigger screen, though. So I don't know. I just got a bug up the butt to spend a bunch of money on a computer, and no matter what, I'm going to have to cool my heels for two to three weeks to get it. My projects won't all be done by then, but in fact I have the money now because I have the work now. So I need it now. But I can have it later.

[CHE]

Ernest,

 

The stories about the excessive weight, poor battery performance, noise and burning heat are true. However, you are going to have to put up with it if what you want is a mobile workstation which can handle your modeling and rendering on the go.

Have you look at Alienware's Area51m? I own one (P4 3.6 1 Gig RAM, ATI 9000 mobile 128MB). It is about 2 years old now. I have been taking it for a ride almost every single day. I couldn't live without it. It is worth the investment and the trouble.

 

Good luck,

Ernesto

[AJLynn]

Get the Acer off the shelf with the 256MB ATI card and the 2GHz Duo, and add another gig of RAM, or do the same with a MacBook Pro and the Boot Camp installer. You can have it tomorrow. I just went the Mac option. Will update on performance after I get all this software to happen.

[AJLynn]

I have Windows running on a Mac! The install was surprisingly smooth, driver disc worked perfectly, you need an XP Pro or Home install that is not an upgrade disc and has SP2 (fortunately I already had a spare and a license). Here's my Cinebench score - look in the benchmark thread and you can compare it to a dual Opteron Boxx. The Boxx is faster but not by much - I figure this is comparable to AMD 2GHz dual cores but with 3 hour battery life and Apple design. Can't wait to see how it deals with FinalRendering.

 

CINEBENCH 9.5

****************************************************

 

Tester : AJLynn

 

Processor : MacBook Pro

MHz : 2x2.0

Number of CPUs : 2

Operating System : XP Pro SP2

 

Graphics Card : ATI x1600 256MB

Resolution :

Color Depth :

 

****************************************************

 

Rendering (Single CPU): 294 CB-CPU

Rendering (Multiple CPU): 541 CB-CPU

 

Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.84

 

Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 343 CB-GFX

Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 1378 CB-GFX

Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 2539 CB-GFX

 

OpenGL Speedup: 7.40

 

****************************************************

[Ernest Burden III]

Get the Acer off the shelf...

 

I want to thank all of you for caring enough to squeeze yourselves through the Internet to slap me silly. I needed that.

 

OK, you're right. Maybe the Boxx is the best choice, maybe it isn't. But what I need right now, today, is more rendering power to get some rush work done. It's mostly just rendertime, very little of my time. So I could have the cost of an off the shelf laptop paid for by Monday, and that's with me going to be away at a friend's country house all weekend. So I don't need the best machine, just a capable machine, but quick.

 

So I'll either get a Toshiba duocore with a 17" screen, or maybe the Apple duocore so I can use the new boot to XP ability, and also give Final Cut a try, as I'm not happy with Premiere.

 

I feel so much better. Thanks, everyone!

[AJLynn]

If you're time-crunching the Apple might not be right - the time-consuming factors are 200MB worth of MacOS updater and Boot Camp, then you have to do a Windows install. But the computer is soooo nice. It's made out of aluminum, which handles the heat dissipation quietly. The power brick has fold-out parts to wrap the cord around. The power cord attaches magnetically so if somebody steps on it you have less risk of breaking your computer. (My roommate, who's a sound guy, loved that one and wishes everything were built that way.) The keyboard is better. The DVD burner is slot-loading. The wireless gets better range than Dell's. I could go on.

[AJLynn]

Okay, found two things that bug me - you don't get a working fn key (you're supposed to; I need to look into this) and the trackpad has one mouse button and no tap-the-pad-to-click. Not sure if this is all driver deficiency in the beta or what.

[Christopher Nichols]

I think either way Ernest goes, he will be make a choice were he is well aware of the pitfall, risks, and advantages. If he makes the wrong choice (or the right one), he only has himself to blame (or praise).

 

Either way you go Ernest, let us know. It seems you have peaked a lot of people's interest, and I am sure many of us want to know what you picked, why, and how is it performing.

[Ernest Burden III]

Either way you go Ernest, let us know.

 

I bought this one:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?seg=HHO&coid=-30600

 

I haven't turned it on yet. I had the memory changed from the stock 1GB to 2GB. The store couldn't find any 2G modules, so since I wanted it right away, I bought what they had. Are the 2G modules even available? This was at a computer store in one of America's bigger malls (yuck, and I went there).

 

I will report back on how it does.

[DennisHolland]

That is a slick machine Ernest! Looking great, nice and flat. If it runs the same as it looks....hhmm cool.

 

For the new memorymodule. I hope it is not the same with the Dell's where you have to wait at least 4 months, at least since I'm still waiting on a new 1Gb thing. So it could be a year as well.

 

For the battery inside more highend laptops, mine is a Dell Inspiron 9100 Multimedia Extreme, all packed, and it runs on battery for about twenty minutes at 70% power. full power it takes 10 minutes and I'm done.

 

How's your lap, still on fire?

 

Dennis