Residential job

[alfienoakes]

This is a job we are carrying out for a small developer.

 

We are producing some images and small animation sequences.

 

Need some comments on keeping render times down, and a small light leak in the left hand corner.

 

I can't put too many items in, or too many glossies, as I will be running an animation, and need to keep render times down.

 

Done with Vray and Viz 2006, modelled in ADT.. Any tips on animations like this in Vray much appreciated..

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[ApeiNe]

Looks nice ATM

Try not to use IrrMap if u will make an animation >> filckering

U'd better use QMC+Lightcache, that will not make any flick, but a bit of noise, wich is easiest to eliminate on post prod

[alfienoakes]

Cheers Loic..

 

I have seen that somewhere before.. forgot about it though.. !!

 

Will make sure I use that..

 

Andy

[alfienoakes]

OK..

 

Here is another render with QMC & Lightcache..

 

I seem to have lost some definition on the lines between the doors.

 

Any more tips on this type of rendering woul dbe greatly received by a Vray newbie (fairly newbie..)

 

Andy

[alfienoakes]

Opps and image..

[pg1]

Haven't used qmc for primary render a lot but I have done lots of animation with irmap primary and qmc secondary without getting any flicker.

 

The flicker that you usually get with irmap animations is due to the fact that you can not have any moving objects in an irmap animation except your camera. Where as you can have moving object with a qmc solution.

 

In particular as you mentioned you don't have a lot of time I think you will find it difficult to get a good qmc solution with low render times.

 

I think you can get better quality solutions with qmc but unless you really need perfect quality (much more noticeable with still images than with animations) you will get an almost similar result with an incremental irmap as your primary and light cache as you secondary bounce but you render times will be way lower.

 

There is a great tutorial for this on the chaosgroup website.

 

Go to the support section on the chaosgroup site (You have to register) then vray docs. then vray index help file and at the bottom you will find tutorials.

[alfienoakes]

cheers Pat..

 

I'm on my way there now..!!

 

Andy

[ApeiNe]

Yep totaly right mate

But you have to use high quality Irrmap.

The problem can be seen on the first render of andy..

Look at the corners of the room, light enter by this way and that just suxx >:/

So try to use "very high" preset with at least 50/40 for Hsphere subdivision and Inter samples.

 

The problem U get there is cause your rQMC still be to the default parameter..

U can try with that :

 

Adaptative ammount : 1,0

Noise threshold : 0,001

Min samples : 8

Global subdivs multiplier : 1,0

 

Keep the lightacache as default (1000/0,05) just change the Interp samples daown to 5.

 

Sure that will be fine

 

Edit : Another thing ^^

If you are using Irrmap as primary, set your AA to adaptative subdivs : 1/4

But if you are using QMC set it to Adaptative QMC 1/20

[martincg]

and what about this solution:

 

- bake textures and for refractive and reflective things use realtime DX materials.

 

- set antialiasing on your graphics card highest /depend how good graf.card you have/

 

- render it in realtime directly in max

 

- make some postproduction in videoediting soft /or just in videopost in max/

[mahorela]

Looks nice ATM

Try not to use IrrMap if u will make an animation >> filckering

U'd better use QMC+Lightcache, that will not make any flick, but a bit of noise, wich is easiest to eliminate on post prod

 

That is simply not true, I have used the irradiance map and QMC as secondary and made excellent completely flicker free animation with max and vray. You just need to pre render you irradiance map (makes rendering much faster anyway) and lower your AA threshold.

 

The scenes I have rendered include, reflective materials, fine details, wind animated plants etc. and I almost always render them at low or very low IRR map settings.

[pg1]

ApeiNe I think you will find that you have made a mistake with inter samples.

 

You are saying that by putting in a higher value you will get better results this is not right.

 

Inter sample act more or less like a blur filter for you IRMAPS so yes increasing your hsphere subdivisions will get you a better quality irmap but if you increase your inter samples you are then bluring that map.

 

Generally I keep inter samples down from the default of 20 to about 14. The lower you go the sharper your GI will be but noisier if you go any lower than 8 you will start to see you irmap through the render.

 

Inter samples is also the only thing you can change in the irmap panel after you have save out your irmap without having to redo the map.

 

Also if you are doing an animation alfienoakes then I would use the high animation setting not the very high setting the only difference being the dist. threshold so unless you have lots of objects very close together and far from the camera (like a lot of railing) you wont see any difference

 

you can also leave your qmc sampler noise threshold to 0.005 instead of lower and you won't see any noticeable difference.

[alfienoakes]

OK.. my head is fit to burst at this point...

 

I have seen the tutorial at Chaosgroup. Is it the "rendering a walk-thru animation" one..??

 

So, If I follow this, with my project, I will end up, hopefully with no light leaks etc..

 

I am going to have a look at this now over the next few days, and then I will repost in the WIPS, how it looks..

 

I have been experimenting, and I am either getting a really good light balance, no leaks etc.. but really noisey, or really crisp with light leaks...

 

This is down to my in-experience obviously.. but I am learning..and it is painfull at the moment.!!

 

Thanks to everyone for the input as well...

 

Andy

[FlytE]

It seems irrelevant now but for you countertop i was going to suggest a falloff in your reflection map slot, so your coutertop doesnt have an endless reflection.

 

Good luck with the animation!!

[alfienoakes]

Andy..

 

Nothing is irrelevant to me these days.. well almost..

 

I will look at that. I will probably try a glossy on it.. see how much damage that can do to my render time as well...

 

Andy

[alfienoakes]

OK..

 

Latest WIP's.. but need to be in the "Finished work" section soon..!

 

I'm quite happy with them, but I would like to reduce the noise a touch more.

 

Using IR Map and Light cache as Primary and Secondary..

 

C&C's welcome..

 

Andy

[pg1]

It looking good andy.

 

The render times are a bit high for an animation can you post some of your settings.

[alfienoakes]

Global Switches - Default

 

Image Sampler - Adaptive QMC 1/4

AA - Area / size 1.5

 

GI - Primary IR / Secondary Light Cache

 

IR Map Min Rate -3 / max 0

HPph Subs - 50

Interp Samp - 15

 

Light Cache (Calc Params) - Subs 2500 / sample size 50mm / scale world (Not a big model though)

(Recon Params) Number of Passes - 4 / filter - nearest / interp samps 7

 

QMC Sampler - Adaptive Amount - 1 / noise threshold .005 / min samps 8 / global subdivs multiplier 1

 

The images are a bit noisey as well.. I want to try and reduce this a bit..? There are a few glossys in there as well, but I am trying to keep the sub divs of those down to between 4 - 8..??

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[pg1]

Hey andy I use catmull rom for the AA as its sharper and good for architectural renders or video if the final render is to be seen on a TV.(also if your client wants to view it on tv use render to fields)

 

You will have to try and get the noise out because when you play our animation the noise will start to move and swim.

 

On the QMC sampler panel change your adaptive amount to .85 and up your min samps to 16.

 

After that try to increase the subdivisions on the lights in the scene. Then try increasing the subdivisions on your materials

(I never go above 40 subdivs).

[pg1]

to help speed up your render

 

change your irmap settings from high animation to med animation and you can probably set your light cache from 2500 to 1000.

 

(they use large samples in the tutorial but then their camera travels on a long camera path going around corners and different rooms)

[alfienoakes]

Thanks Pa..

 

The only good thing about the animations, is they are very quick, 60 frame ones, to get me between rooms, so they aren't long slow lingering shots..

 

One more thing.. you said:

 

"After that try to increase the subdivisions on the lights in the scene. Then try increasing the subdivisions on your materials

(I never go above 40 subdivs)."

 

Which settings exactly are these.. I'm still fairly new to Vray, so sometimes miss things..

 

Thanks a lot..

 

Andy

[pg1]

Hey Andy

 

If you find noise say for example in one the walls of the room, if you go to the material thats on the wall you can (if its a vray material) in the basic parameters panel increase the subdivs for reflection and refraction. They are default at 8 but if you increase the numbers you can get rid of some the noise in your materials.

 

Also select you lights if they are vray lights you will see the sampling box under the parameters section where you can increase the subdivisions for the light.

 

If its a target direct light its under vray shadow parameters.

 

If you go through you scene and select all the larger object.Hide them and leave the smallest objects ( putty in the windows, screws in the doors the real small stuff) Select all the small stuff together right click,

select vray properties and turn off generate G.I.

 

Also go through your materials in the scene. Go to option panel in the material editor and you can switch off trace reflection and refraction and double sided. This means instead of vray calculating an actually true reflection it will just make a specular highlight (essentially changing the vray material to a standard max mat.) which can speed things up.

 

Obviously not to be done for every material just the ones that don't effect the scene too much.

[alfienoakes]

Ah.. I see. OK..

 

Will have a look at that, and see what I can do..

 

Cheers

 

Andy