Two reasons for Max/Viz crashes

[Brian Smith]

As I was posting a reply to another user who was having problems with VIZ crashing constantly with a particular file, I realized that this might be worth an individual post as a worthwhile tip. His post was http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/17023-file-keeps-crashing.html

 

If you have Max or VIZ crashes for select files, and you can not figure out why, here are two possible reasons related to memory...

 

Reason #1 - too many objects. Notice that when you start the rendering process, Max/VIZ has to run through the 'Preparing Objects' phase. The more objects you have, the more memory and time that must be set aside preparing these objects for all the things that go on behide the scenes. All the objects have to be tagged, categorized, assigned qualities and characteristics unique to the individual objects. Bottom line, you can fix the problem by reducing the number of objects. As a rule, I never let a scene get above 1000 objects, though in 95% of my scenes I won't have more than a few hundred. How do you reduce the number? Attach objects (Edit Mesh or Edit Poly) that have the same materials applied, or at the very least Attach with Multi/Subobject materials.

 

Reason #2 - too many objects not collapsed. Make sure that you collapse all objects to an editable mesh or editable poly whenever possible. If you have to preserve the modifiers in the modifier stack for future revisions, obviously don't do that...but if you know that you won't need to access previously applied modifiers, collapse the object. If you don't you will SERIOUSLY increase the file size and the amount of RAM used. As an example, a scene with a single teapot is only going to be about 150kb in size. But if you apply an edit mesh modifier, move some vertices, apply a turbo smooth, apply another edit mesh and move some faces, apply another modify and another, a lot of information has to be stored to display the teapot in all of these states. Another perfect example is, when you apply Compound Objects. If you apply a Boolean to an object, for example, information for both original obects in their previoius state is still stored along with the information about the Boolean result. But if you collapse the resulting Boolean object, you essentially purge your scene of that unneeded information (which can never again be retrieved). You might notice the effect of this also when you load files. A tiny scene could take forever to open up if it contains numerous objects that were created from the Compound Objects features.

 

Hope this helps.

[antonio_frias]

Thanks for the helpful tips Brian!

[tanni]

Thanks for your tips. But I have a Different type of problem- I am using Max8, when I use RPC for my scene then I have to face a that (crash) problem – my renderer Brazil 1.2.58 every thing is ok, but it happen at the end of the render. When I hide the RPCs then every thing ok & there have no problem with net render.

[CVC]

RPC loading too slow , i have ever seen , let try render thought network ( backburn) this way is faster , i have ever tried !

[Brian Smith]

More objects means more time set aside for the 'Preparing Objects' phase of rendering. Since RPCs can't be attached to other objects, every RPC is it's own object. A scene with several hundred RPCs could easily take several minutes during the 'Preparing Objects' phase, even though it could actually render the image in seconds. Bottom line is always keep the number of objects in a scene as low as possible. Don't ever use more than a few hundred RPCs in a scene unless you're ready to wait a while for the first pixel to be rendered. Turning the billboard option on for RPCs can help though and allow for more to be used.

[tanni]

In my scene I didn't put more 5/6 RPCs only few movieng cars, I think loading doesn't make that problem, after render the whole scene - it happens(Crash).

So, I think that problem is different.

tanni

[Brian Smith]

Tanni,

At this point, you just have to do some deductive reasoning. Does it crash with one RPC object? Every RPC object? Do you have the right RPC plugin? Have you reinstalled the plugin? There's got to be a reason for the crashes.

[jacko]

brian raises a good point, I had a similar problem with rpc - I was pulling my hair out until I discovered it was one rpc woman ( I forget her name) who was making it crash. I dumped her and never looked back

[Sketchrender]

if you collapse the modifier, can you alter the state of an object. ie can re remodifie it again, if you introduce one modifiers.

 

Also if i turn on the stats for the scene ie the no of polygones ect, the frame rate and hence the refresh rate when orbiting the model drops dramicaly.

 

phil

[pipjor]

Brian, I'm confussed in your "scene assembly.pdf" you say "being able to minimize file size by keeping objects in their original parametric form is ideal", i thought you were saying when you collapse objects to editable mesh this is when max has to now deal with all these faces, but in this post i'm reading something different????

[Brian Smith]

Brian, I'm confussed in your "scene assembly.pdf" you say "being able to minimize file size by keeping objects in their original parametric form is ideal", i thought you were saying when you collapse objects to editable mesh this is when max has to now deal with all these faces, but in this post i'm reading something different????

 

David,

The next thing i say after that comment is 'however, it’s

usually not practical for most scene elements.'

 

The bottom line is, you have to figure out what form your objects need to be in to the find the best mixture of RAM consumption, rendering time, and file transfer time. Too many objects are not good because they can drastically increase rendering times, but collapsing high polygon count objects and attaching together rather than leaving those objects as instances are not good either because doing so can drastically increase file size. Having uncollapsed Compound objects is not good because it can increase file load times, yet collapsing high polygon objects can increase file size. Often you need to determine what is the lesser of two evils. Every scene has a certain optimal design to it that will allow you to achieve the greatest efficiency in your work and each scene is different.

 

I can tell you that if you have any questions about what is what, make sure you read the 2 insider tutorials that speak heavily on the subject of scene efficiency - Creating 3D Sites and Vegetation on a Large Scale. Vegetation and other site elements are the source of many problems people have with memory consumption and it's easy for things to become unmanageable if you don't follow a few basic principles.

 

Hope that helps.

[helmutcad]

Mootools Polygon Cruncher reduces the number of polygons of your objects

without changing their appearance. You keep all details even at high optimization ratio. You also keep texture information, vertex colors.

 

Maybe it can help us

[Ernest Burden III]

if you collapse the resulting Boolean object, you essentially purge your scene of that unneeded information (which can never again be retrieved).

 

Sort of.

 

Before doing the collapse, or in C4D 'current state to object' save the file. Then save under a new, iterated name (like 'Bighospital-01, 02, 03 etc). In the highly unlikely event that you later need the un-collapsed objects, you know they are sitting there waiting in the old file. Otherwise, render on.

[Brian Smith]

Ernest,

What do you mean 'sort of'?

[Chad Warner]

I think he means "sort of" to the statement about never being able to retreive the boolean information again. As long as you save a new version of the file pre-stack collapsing, you can always go back to the older file and retreive the non collapsed object.