Interior test/Maxwell V1

[Guest imanobody]

I'm in 100% percent agreement with you on that one Ernest. Teachers are paid to teach, not give back-handed insults in an effort to make themselves feel superior or smarter then everyone else. Remember the old saying that says that those that can't "do" - "teach".

Crits are only the opinions of the person looking at the art, so they are baised from the get-go. But, if you want to make your art appealing to the masses, you have to know what the masses think. But, if everyone listened to crits and didn't do what they thought was right, there would have never been Fred Astair, Andy Warhol, Micheal Jordan, and ANIME. If someone puts the effort into making something, I will put the effort into giving a detailed crit on what MY opinions are, but I'll make it clear it's only my opinions and just ignore them if they think it's fine. If I had ever met Jackson Pollock, I would of told him that his art didn't make any sense to me, like many other crits did of the time, which all happened to be wrong.

[DennisHolland]

As we look back to all that has been said the last year on the famous forums like this one, and the maxwell forums, we can say that there is quite a lot of frustration (understatement), a lot of applause and a lot of really dumb and cheap bullshit...

 

NextLimit released an Alpha 1 year ago, together with a striking marketingcampaign, a very intelligent one. There was a hype at first start and expectations were skyhigh. Bugs in the core popped up every day, especially for the clipmap and glass issues, timeframe for a noisefree rendering and problems with the unorthodox way of handling your scene, preparing it the right way for Maxwell.

 

The above is actually ALL that is going on. The rest, said on forums, critiques and all other bullshit came from us, not NL or anybody else. I suggest we stop with pumping up something that isn't physically there and use the Maxwell render engine (Beta or V1.0 as you wish) for jobs you know Maxwell can handle. It isn't the ultimate solution for non-creative wannabees (one button > instant coolness) or a moneymaking renderer, that is nonsense.

 

If you all are really into production and earn your bread with what you like to do in life as a business, or employed job, then deal with what you've got and use another famous render-engine for jobs Maxwell can't handle, probably never will....

 

Little example: I did two workshops about Maxwell Render during the dutch 3D-enduser event some weeks ago. Ted Boardman was there for a class, some other international working pro's attended also. All questions in class I got were very negative ones, picked up at the forums, rumours they 'heard' and lots of other crap. Not one fancy-cool intelligent, positive question. The forum-anger is about to turn this ultra-nice and creative business into a (noisy) little hell!

 

Stay cool, produce a smile and watch your bloodpressure.

 

Ernest: No, there is no teacher in you, but a very skilled render-artist

Fran: The respect you get after a post is cool

 

Take it easy fellows, life's more than a render-engine

Dennis

[Fran]

As we look back to all that has been said the last year on the famous forums like this one, and the maxwell forums, we can say that there is quite a lot of frustration (understatement), a lot of applause and a lot of really dumb and cheap bullshit...

 

Take it easy fellows, life's more than a render-engine

Dennis

 

Renders and render engines are what we talk about here. It is not our fault if you got stuck in front of a rude and unruly audience that had no idea what professional behavior is.

[KRZ9000]

beta love - tsk if only you nostalgic people could take the time to actually figure out the differences you see. to me you all sound like children who are not able to express what they want to say yet. it just makes no sense to talk if you dont give some substance to the topic of "beta love vs v1".

 

untill then i would apprechiate to see the time more used to improve the skills,...also those with children and other excusess

[olbo]

Heya Chris,

 

c'mon ... keep the ball low mate. I guess everybody is a bit

nervous these days. The problem is definately that a lot of

people expected the ease of the beta. At this point it looks

like there will be material libraries that you'll have to buy,

just like for Vray, if you don't have the time to make them

yourself. Just remember the guy at the maxwell forum who

was willing to pay 150 pound for the anodisized aluminum.

 

NL changed a lot of stuff, so it looks like the Maxwell Render

that was expected is gone for a long time ... But if you are

good at the material editor and at textures too, well I guess

there is a new market now. ^^

 

So, ... at the end we all can choose what RenderEngine we

wanna use for a job. Don't shoot at each other, this will not

change the way you work!

 

 

 

take care

Oleg

[AJLynn]

Chris- If you're going to talk like that you'd better back it up with some of your own work. Show some Maxwell V1 renders and tell us a bit about how you did them.

[leoA4D]

To correct DennisHolland (his post above): NL's business ethics and methods (the facts in this matter) underlies the frustrations which led to the outpouring of emotions (complaints).

 

It seems DennisHolland's central message to the complainers is 1/ do not be frustrated with NL or MWR, 2/ stop complaining about NL/MWR and 3/ what NL has done in the last year+ is a little sloppy but basically okay. Lastly, "just produce a smile..." IMHO, drivel.

[leoA4D]

Chris- If you're going to talk like that you'd better back it up with some of your own work. Show some Maxwell V1 renders and tell us a bit about how you did them.

 

Quoted for agreement.

[Adehus]

It seems DennisHolland's central message to the complainers is 1/ do not be frustrated with NL or MWR, 2/ stop complaining about NL/MWR and 3/ what NL has done in the last year+ is a little sloppy but basically okay. Lastly, "just produce a smile..." IMHO, drivel.

 

Yes, and it seems like we're being blamed because Dennis's seminar participants didn't seem to hold Maxwell in the same high regard as he does. Silly us for tainting people with our experiences.

 

Dennis (and anyone else for that matter)- perhaps you could show us some imagery that would persuade us to respect Maxwell's capabilities?

 

It's not a new request, and it's one that always goes unfulfilled. Wonder why that is? Oddly, not even NL can explain how the material editor works... or show successful test imagery.

[Fran]

...also those with children and other excusess

 

I don't resort to name-calling on public forums. Please use your imagination.

[_PopArt]

hehe..its amazing that maxwell after all its gone through can still produce such controversy and flame wars. The nl forum has been sterilized and it looks like most people have lost interest, but over here the same old passionate flame wars and insulting start again.

 

maxwell is a *great* set of ideas, rushed into completion, and at least for me (i wont speak for others who are much better than me:) )totally unusable.(and this is my fault because I'm too dumb to understand the material system:))

 

But it has raised the criteria for all render engines, and sooner or later, many of its ideas will become mainstream.

[Ernest Burden III]

but over here the same old passionate flame wars and insulting start again

 

Well, I went OT by getting passionate about insults passing for proper educational support. It's happened before, and the next time I hear one of you tell of a so-called professor handing out McDonald's job applications to design students I promise to get just as bent out of shape. That crap has to stop.

 

And Maxwell is a disappointment...just to stay a little on-topic.

[jackb602]

Well, I went OT by getting passionate about insults passing for proper educational support. It's happened before, and the next time I hear one of you tell of a so-called professor handing out McDonald's job applications to design students I promise to get just as bent out of shape. That crap has to stop.

 

I heartily second you on that. Fortunately, grad school is now far enough behind me that I can laugh at the friendly but indecipherable critic who told my classmate in a totally serious tone of voice "you must consider what is not not the interior...and what is not not the exterior". Or the cranky but allegedly brilliant instructor who gathered us together at the beginning of the term to emphasize that we should "draw like angels." And, lest I forget the well dressed but pompous critic who told a good friend of mine "you have no intellect."

 

Sadly, there are very few genuine educators in architecture and far too many naked emperors with fragile egos. I do think that this problem is worse in the US than other countries, maybe because of the obsession with obscure theory. Spain for example, turns out an incredible number of exceptional architects. To get back to the topic, I don't know where the gentlemen at Next Limit picked up their business, social, or programming skills.

 

Jack

[leoA4D]

over here the same old passionate flame wars and insulting start again.

 

THE tr...uth S H A L L set you free!!!

[Ernest Burden III]

To get back to the topic, I don't know where the gentlemen at Next Limit picked up their business, social, or programming skills.

 

ebay

[Devin Johnston]

You guy's crack me up

 

First and foremost the images Ernesto posted weren’t in the Final Images section they were in the Maxwell section and were labeled "Interior Test". There is nothing wrong with critiquing and analyzing his results which is what he wanted us to do or he wouldn’t have posted it here.

[_PopArt]

ebay

 

[KRZ9000]

im in learning stage too therefore i cant impress you with my perfect render but with every render i find out abit more where i can improve a value and where is done right.

 

 

here the "normal" bottles look too thin, so next time i render with a smaller attenuation.

 

same here

 

 

the dielectrics suffer from too high attenuation and lightsetup is boring.

 

 

clipmaps work.

 

 

boring lighting but materials almost there.

 

what i want to say is that im sure we can achieve the right look with the material editor allready now. and i cant understand the talk about the beta that was magically allways spot on with a preset. its a myth. its just a matter of time till we see great stuff again...because theres nothing wrong with the editor. just with exspectations.

[olbo]

...because theres nothing wrong with the editor. just with exspectations.

 

I agree on that and I guess thats what's the talk is about. A lot of people

don't need the power of the new material editor, they just expected the

ease of the beta materials and the power of the new engine ... well, the

Wizard isn't working as expected and people are having problems to get

used to the editor ... and NL. ;o)

 

I also can see some poeple happy with the new material editor, they

can create alomst every material, ... if they invest enough time. Hopefully

the introduction of the new RS2 engine will not change the way that

you would expect it to behave with your new RS1+ materials.

 

 

 

take care

Oleg

[Fran]

...and i cant understand the talk about the beta that was magically allways spot on with a preset. its a myth.

 

Perhaps you can't understand it because nobody has said that. Good results require effort. With V1, I'm working a whole lot harder and not getting the results I expect.

 

Your last three renders are a bit dark, even on my lcd.

[olbo]

I hope you don't mind Chris ... ;o)

 

 

 

 

take care

Oleg

[arquiteck09]

Perhaps you can't understand it because nobody has said that. Good results require effort.

 

According to Maxwell Render website:

Learning to use Maxwell is extremely easy. The user need only specify the amount of time to spend processing the render and Maxwell will automatically optimize its internal calculations to obtain the best result in the render period.

 

So they started the myth.

[CHE]

Ok, back to topic. I finally got some time to reply to some of your comments:

 

Is the only light coming in through the window or does the light fixture cast any?

 

The light fixture has a white emitter. The rest is physical sky + sun.

 

Weird.. you guys successfully ruined his thread where he wanted to show off his latest work. Good job! if you people are so in love with beta then use the beta and stop nagging about 1.0 *rolls eyes*

Anyways, the renderings look good.

/ Max

 

I am not trying to "show off" my latest work. I am testing the technical limitations of V1 and looking for solutions to some of the problems that I have encountered. I wouldn't have posted here if I didn't want to get any comments and constructive critisism. This is what cgarchitect.com is all about.

 

Again, please keep in mind that I downloaded the base model from a web site (read first post).

 

The problem seems to be most people don't understand the materialeditor and that's the root of the complaints about the missing beta look in 1.0, however silly i think that is as it tells me people are too lazy to try to learn the new materialeditor, instead they resort to common complaining as it's easier. / Max

 

Yes, I think that the main problem is the complexity of the new materials. I have invested several days trying to understand this new material editor. So far I don't even feel like I have figured out the basics completely. There is not enough learning material on this subject so I have to resort to trial and error. I do not consider my self a lazy person. I work, go to school and take care of my daughter. so I do not appreciate your comment.

[CHE]

Here is an update. I incorporated some of your suggestions. I am not completely happy with all the materials but I think that I am getting close. The glass is hidden for this one since I didn't find a solution for the AGS/Alpha problem.

 

Dual Xeon 3GHz 2GB RAM Render time: 32hrs at 1500 pixels. S.L.: 18.5

 

1. - Color correction, levels, noise filter, and resized to 1000 pixels.

2. - Original close-up

 

Thanks,

Ernesto

[leoA4D]

...because theres nothing wrong with the editor. just with exspectations.

 

 

"Many people seem to have trouble grasping the Maxwell material setup, what the settings are supposed to do and how they relate to traditional 3D naming conventions." – Mihai (thread started 20.05.06 and is currently 11 pages long at http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15823)