AUTOCAD 2007 Disaster

[danatgia]

Is anyone else having problems with the detritus that Autodesk has given us in the form of 2007? I have had constant crashes and the shade mode is impossibly slow. I have even resorted to scrapping use of the beast and have gone back to 2006. I'm also in the process of discovering whether Microstation would be a better option. Autodesk has let us down BADLY this time. Not to mention the fact that 3DS out is no longer availible. Don't even think about upgrading, its not worth the hastle and delayed deadlines!!!!!! I would be interested to see what other users think.

[Brian Smith]

That seems strange...I use 2004 so I can't say but I have some friends that use it have they haven't mentioned anything like that...I would try reinstalling or just calling Autodesk if you don't get the help you need here.

[soulctrla]

I tried 2006 and hated it.

 

I have stuck to 2005 -

 

i was on 2000 for ages before that and with R14 before that for a long time.

 

I think that since 2000 there is very little useful added to Autocad -

I think its just gets heavier and slower as time goes on.

 

I take autocad for granted because there is very little that i need to do with it that I cant do very easily (wish same could be said for max and FR) but seriously Autocad is getting worse and worse with each release.

 

I am tempted by microstation if it continues like this - its just the problem with productivity if i try to convert our entire office.

[mtutaj]

I've had no issues with Acad thru 2007. I have a client that has all sorts of issues with 2002 & 2004, but that is more to do with no backup, daily brownouts and data being corrupted. What kind of system are you running acad with?

 

Mike

[BrianKitts]

we currently have an office of 100+ people successfully working w/ 2006. I know the IT guys have recieved 2007 but they haven't rolled it out yet. The only problems I've ever known people to have with acad is when they were using illegal hacked copies. I'm yet to hear of anyone having detrimental problems with a legal liscensed copy of the software.

[kippu]

i hate acad 2007 ...and i agree totally with the points that you raised up .... the shade modes and the worst part was the scrapping up of 3dsout ...and not giving an alternative.... argh... whoever complained about the existence of it ??

[cdos00]

Firstly, Let me get this out in the open. I personally have not used 2007 as I recently changed jobs from an office that used 2005/2006 to an office that uses Microstation. As I am learning MS, I think it is a great program, HOWEVER, I long for the days of modeling in AutoCAD. I previously had gotten into the work flow of modeling solids in AutoCAD and then using the 3dsOut function to get them into MAX, When I upgraded to Max7 I realized that I didn't have to do that. There are two other ways to get information into MAX, by importing the .dwg file directly into MAX, OR by using file link. The latter of the options is by far the BEST way of getting information into the MAX workflow. If you do not use MAX as your rendering program and instead you use form-z or something like that then not having 3dsOut may cause a problem. Otherwise EVOLVE with the program. Use the work flow in a more dynamic fasion. Who here has clients that set the design in stone and leave it that way?

 

Well just my 10 minute random rant. I will watch this post to see how it progresses, however, I think you have all sold AutoCAD VERY short. I still think it is the BEST platform out there, HANDS down. Besides, with the direction Autodesk is going they will own the world before the year ends.

[vizwhiz]

here is a link To certified video cards That run well (or not) for autocad 2007

 

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/hc?status=1&status=2&status=3&os=WinXP&os=Win2K&siteID=123112&catID=6711614&id=6711853&linkID=2475161&is_results=1

 

you may want To check This To see if you need To upgrade your video card

 

Technological Leap Frog, hardware or software

which changes 1st? which changes more often?

 

**

 

i just got NFR 2007 and i definately got To up grade The video card

i have been using autocad since '88 and it works well for what i need

 

randy

[bigroo]

Is anyone else having problems with the detritus that Autodesk has given us in the form of 2007?

 

Wikipedia quotes Detrius as "an important source of nutrients" and I feel that I feed off of Autodesk very well. I enjoy trying all new versions and options that come with them. True, shade mode is slower but so what.

I learnt on 2000, qualified on 2005, enjoyed 2006 and was initially wowed by 2007 but I'm sure most people here don't specifically use one software package only and can and do navigate through many. Just find what you like in each and apply that to your workflow.

As for any technical problems, I can't say that has affected me or anyone that I know of.

 

Autodesk is a monster though, a big hungry monster.

[Ricardo Eloy]

I guess the problem is that all "new features" on 2007 are no longer new to us. I mean, push/pull extrusion, active shading, vertex editing, everything "new" has actually been around for a couple years (or more), so people were probably expecting a revolution. Well, guess what. It's not.

[cdos00]

Well in the sense of AutoCAD it IS a revolution. IF you don't work in MAX (which most people in the architecture industry DO NOT) then the new features in AutoCAD that are drizzling down from MAX are new. Personally, in my old office the only person who even knew ANYTHING about MAX was me, that was only because I personally sought out that program and knowledge set. The firm was actually standardized on Form-z. I really like FZ, however it lacks a LOT. I don't want this to become a rant against other packages, but just know that AutoCAD is improving on features other COMPETING software packages do not have. I am pretty sure that MS does not have vertex editing in the same way that ACAD does now.

[danatgia]

Good responses guys and some interesting points. Firstly my system is running Twin xeon 3.06GHz with 3.5Gig Ram and an Nvidea Quadro FX 1000 card. According to Randy's Autodesk link, my card should run fine and I have just updated the driver so I will test it again for another week. Also it IS a legal copy. Don't get me wrong about Autodesk though, this wasn't a simple dig at them. The problems I've had with 2007 have been costly and yes the shade mode is slow and yes it DOES matter. Why release a product that is not performing as well as a previous release and behaves as if it is still in Beta?

 

The fact that they have incorporated so much of max/viz into the software has crippled it. Surely if you are going to use Max/Viz apps. then you simply buy those programs. If you want a Cad package then surely it should be a Cad package and not some hybrid nightmare?! I've used AutoCad since release 12 some 10 years ago and each release has seen improvements up until 2002. From that point on its just fluff - irrelevant fillers.

 

BTW Detritus (according to Oxford English ditionary) is "Disintegrated or eroded matter"

[Scarlett]

...I'm yet to hear of anyone having detrimental problems with a legal liscensed copy of the software.

Have you checked out the 2007 forum on the Autodesk site? Plenty of people have found much to complain about regarding stability, compatibility and general bugginess. All of which translates into detrimental problems when a deadline is staring you right in the face and you're wasting time trying to figure out how to make it play nicely with the other apps and your own PC.

Apparently their official story about the lack of 3dsout is that it is no longer needed because 3ds max 8 reads .dwg files natively. Well, that's great if max is the application you're trying to port to and of course assuming that you've actually got the latest version with the patch. Everyone else is SOL. Some cynics might speculate that this is a ploy to get everyone to shell out for all new Adesk products and only Adesk products.

Fortunately for me, my knowledge of how to best put these walls and windows into some kind of renderable form isn't that great and I've been able to live with saving as .dxf and dragging that into max 7. I also do this for fun rather than as a living so I don't have to stress over it too much. For my real work, vanilla 2D 2006 is just fine.

[STRAT]

well, if 3dsout is no longer available i'll definately be staying well away. thanks for the heads up. (max isnt my main 3d render app)

[danatgia]

Well I've given it another week and a good going over but at 14:00 hours GMT today, AutoCAD 2007 was pronounced dead at the scene.

 

My graphics card is fully supported by Autodesk and the drivers a fully updated. It just aint workin effectively. A brief list of the problems we've had:

 

-On average 4 crashes a day from a 3D file of less than 40mb

-Corruption and unrecoverable files after crash

-Crashes after saving

-Crashes after solid editing

-VERY slow in shademode making it totally unworkable

 

Seriously, there are big problems with this software, just take a look at some of the Autodesk forums http://discussion.autodesk.com/forum.jspa?forumID=186

 

I have reverted to 2006 and am working on 150mb models with no major problems. If anyone else uses reasonably large models >30mb and isn't having problems with 2007 I would be very surprised.

[WestCAD]

I did all the right things before my ADST2007 arrived...doubled ram to 2 gig, upgraded graphics card to certified nvidia quadro...wasted my money as I have reverted to ADT2006, as the backwards compatiblity and speed of 2006 in my opinion far outways the new features in 2007.

I have been using AutoCAD since 1984 and normally get excited about any new release....not this one. Seriuosly looking at not renewing my subscription

[cdos00]

Wow, you guys sure are throwing down a product that has quite a few years under it's belt developing the INDUSTRY STANDARD SOFTWARE PACKAGE. It just seems a little silly to be "Writing them off". Almost every new program coming out has bugs and has issues, UNLESS, you control the absolute specs of every hardware package your software will be installed on (i.e. apple). There are just too many variables out there to be testing the software on ALL the different possible configurations.

 

As far as the size of your models goes. HOW IS IT POSSIBLE to have a 150 MB model?? What are you working on? Fully detailed models of NYC with all of the furniture included??? 150 MB of AutoCAD file is a LOT of information. Maybe you should streamline your modeling process before throwing down the software. I mean with normal/bump/displacement, there is no reason to have objects with HUGE polycounts, secondly if you aren't rendering to output of 12' x 12' posters most printers cannot replicate that level of detail ANYWAY!

 

In response to the lack of 3dsOUT ability. What do you expect Autodesk to do? Just provide you with a medium to go between for all of the different rendering packages out there? Even IF the format in question is FAR outdated and incredibly inefficient? Really? Are you guys surprised that Adesk has folded the "all powerful" .dwg format directly into MAX cutting out the "middle man"?

 

Just another perspective on the situation. Don't freak out and flame me, just consider it.

[danatgia]

Chris you raise some interesting points but are a little patronising in your arguments. 150mb models are not so unusual. A 1 km square area of London in reasonable detail is approaching 100mb. I need it to be this detailed not for printing purposes but for analysis and environmental considerations. There are plenty of people out there using AutoCAD software and not all of them are performing the same functions as you (which I presume is small and low detail modelling for prnting purposes!)

 

Secondly, with as you say "a product that has quite a few years under its belt" I would absolutely expect them to have no functionality problems for existing AutoCAD users. If you care to read a previous post you will see the hardware I am using and its not some two bit 5 year old pentium 2 but a reasonably hi-spec professional machine.

 

Fianlly the 3DS out problem is much maligned by users across the board. It may not be the most efficient export option, but for some packages it is the only option. I appreciate you have your opinions towards mine and others points, but unless you work for Autodesk, I do not see why you should be so defensive of them. These arguments are absolutely necessary if we are going to get value for money. At more than $4000 a pop we deserve more, especially those of us who have been using AutoCAD for many years.

 

In terms of not freaking out and resisting the urge to flame you, perhaps you should word your arguments in a less agressive and more coherent manner!

[cdos00]

Dan,

In response. I understand that 3dsOUT is the way a lot of people transfer information from a modeling software to a rendering and output software however, the format is Very much out of date...The program which originated that file format does not even exist any longer. At some point in time progress needs to be embraced. I am sorry if that leaves some people in a bind. However, to go onto forums and call for people to stop using a package all together is a little bit rash. I mean, in reality the rendering software packages have adapted in allowing .dwgs to be brought in.

 

Secondly, about the 100MB file size. I understand that there are projects that require a significant amount of detail, however, if you work in max you can easily create normal maps to create at least a decent amount of detail in an item without having to model out that many polygons. If you are using it for analysis and environmental considerations maybe there is a package out there that can do this in a more efficient manner. The fact that your computer has "awesome" specs won't help you if you are not efficiently using the resources available to you. The most powerful computer in the world isn't going to help you push an inefficient model through the pipeline. Please do not take this as an attack on you. It is not meant that way. All I am pointing out is possibly something you have overlooked. There are plenty of people on these forums that produce AMAZING work, some of them have 5+ year old computers and hardware. They just understand how to make the software work in the most efficient manner and therefore can leverage the resources available and eke out every bit of power.

 

Back to the issue at hand though. I do not work for Autodesk however, I have worked in the more technical side of the software (running the IT side of a 17 man firm) for 7 years. I have recently moved to a 190 man firm to focus more on my architectural progression. I feel that Autodesk has the best program on the market hands down. Regardless of new release bugs, AutoCAD is by far the most powerful package out there. This is all evidenced in the fact that autodesk holds the market share in almost EVERY facet of architecture and design. With the acqusition of the Maya package, Autodesk is further bolstering this point.

 

In closing, I understand your frustration, I just wanted to offer another point of view to this forum which was quickly heading toward the unanimous lynching of AutoCAD 2007 in what I consider "amazing haste"

 

Please take my contributions as I have described in the last paragraph, not in a manner that you interpret it.

[danatgia]

Chris

I accept your points gladly. Just lose the patronising tone please. I am well aware how to model efficiently and have been working in the industry for 15 years.

[mtutaj]

I dont think cdos00's points were in a patronising tone. just stated the facts. and recommeded some options. If you don't use max, what program do you use for your rendering? I have gotten a few models up to the 120meg range, This was for a highly detailed large interior with like 100 segway ht's in it. wasn't working like I wanted it to, so I had to block out items, and worked on them seperetly in max then xrefed them in max. worked great, allowed me to manage the files and get the job done. I've been working in the industry for over 12 years. None of us know everything, but we all know a lot from our previous experiences and there is always another way to do something. Might not be the right way, but that is the beauty of acad. By the way, are you face modeling or solid modeling in acad?

[cdos00]

Dan, I am sorry you took my comments in a patronizing manner. They were not meant to be that way.

 

I agree with Mike, there is always going to be the possibility of having a 150MB file, however, they should be the exception to the rule not the standard of the rule. If they are becoming THAT common maybe there is a better way to model it or a better package to model in. The point I wanted to make was that sometimes we get into a "routine" of how we model and we fail to realize the progression of the overall industry to other avenues of executing large modeling functions. Again, dan, please don't take this the wrong way. However, I was blown away the first time I used file link within MAX. That is one of the strongest integrations of two programs I have EVER seen. Especially considering they actually came from different origins (Autodesk vs. Discreet).

 

Honestly, if you are modeling in AutoCAD the addition of file link almost makes the purchase of MAX automatic. The ability to go back and change your geometry within AutoCAD and have it automatically update within MAX without having to reload/import the new geometry is awesome.

 

Just my opinion though.

[Audrie]

I am finding 2007 (and 2006 for that matter ) frustrating in that I can no longer programme the accelerator keys to the various osnaps and zooms. Iused to have F11 programmed for Zoom/Scale/9xp and it is driving me batty having to rely instead on the stupid mouse zoom which leaves me in the wrong spot all the time.

[mtutaj]

you can still save as dxf in acad2007

 

you have to go to the file saveas option to save as .dxf

 

let me know if that works. in the help documentation is pointing to that solution for dxfout.

 

Mike

[Hazdaz]

It is starting to sound like this first major upgrade in AutoCAD in many, many, many years might turn into a 'downgrade'. It has take AutoDesk many years to FINALLY turn AutoCAD into a realitively fast and stable product, and with one new release all that stability might go away?!?

 

Now that work has slowed down a bit, I was planning on testing it out - I foolishly got excited by all the new features that it is supposed to have. Now I am slightly dredding installing it.