IC Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 I've been experimenting with various glass objects trying to improve my materials. The trickiest one I've found has been a standard wineglass. I like this one but the refraction is too exaggerated. Any suggestions for improvements? (Where is Jason Lee when you need him?) This could be a 'LW glass-hints and tips' beginning. All the other renderers have them. Ideally we could share materials/objects and build up a decent library if enough people get on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 Here's another, thicker glass I did recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 looking good Ian. Fprime? Can't really comment on tips thou as I use viz. reduce IOR? Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 Yeah these are FPrime. If I want caustics I have to revert to LightWave which multiplies the render times by around 20 (to 35 minutes!). FPrime is limited in the information it can get from LW but that should change soon (hopefully). Cheers Geoff, I'm hoping to get some activity going on this forum as it's a bit dead to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otacon Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 I think your first wine glass looks good. It may benefit from a more contrasty environment. The second one looks a little like plastic to me, it might need a more exaggerated fresnel effect on the reflection or more refraction...hard to say. Fprime can render caustics, but i think you need to be using radiosity and have bounces set to a minimum of 3. Also in caustics options under light properties you need to turn caustics intensity way up, like 20,000 or something. Heres some glass i was playing with the other day, the perfume bottle is rendered in kray, the other two are fprime...no caustics though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 5, 2006 Author Share Posted June 5, 2006 I tried getting caustics through FPrime following that CGTalk thread but I couldn't get it right. I like your second one. The first one is nice and delicate looking too (just read your post properly!). How does Kray compare with FPrime for things like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warprat Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Yeah lets do the hints and tips thing, brighten things up a bit around here. Your first glass iain looks alright but there is someting I can't put my finger on. The coffee maker was much better It had that golssy shinny glass feel to it. To me that was glass. Now jason what you done there is glass! But not much difference with fprime and kray. Hey guys maybe some settings on how you set up the glass material and enviro? I'll send in one of mine later. Looking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warprat Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Here is my attemp at glass not very happy with it. Got any tips ???? I used a skydome here, Got the preset Glass 3 in LIghtwave 8. 3 Spotlights just for diffuse and rim lights. any ideas on how to better this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Tip 1: Are you familiar with the 'air object' idea? Looks like you need to create one inside your glass. Make a transparent copy with just a tiny amount of refraction and flip it so the polygons face inward. Makes all the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limbus Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Here is some glass I did a while back: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 There goes another lunch hour on caustics! Just far too fiddly and render heavy. Here's hoping for something new in 9.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otacon Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Limbus can you share your refraction setting for the glass in those? I always have a hard time getting the refraction right so it looks like the liquid is right up against the edge of the glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 Jason, I'd also be interested in the refraction setting on your 'red' glass. Have you guys used gradients in transparency, diffuse and/or reflection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchrender Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 They look great. I'm a formz and Max user+vray. I have always had a hankering to try lightwave. the survey didn't do it any justice , but the survay was carried out here, and this is mostly max and vray lets be honesty. Have newtek any plans to rewrite their rendering engine, I think it is long over due..... If was to go free lance i always thought i would use lightwave cost alone would sway the balance. To think you could get a good machine , and the software for the same price as max. You get waht you pay for they say....do you I wonder? phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 Philip Release 9 is imminent and it is a bit of a rewrite in a lot of respects but the render engine and surface editor are the main targets for improvement. We're expecting a lot but then we've all been there before haven't we? It's never been as popular for viz work as it is for TV and film stuff but that is slowly changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limbus Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Limbus can you share your refraction setting for the glass in those? I always have a hard time getting the refraction right so it looks like the liquid is right up against the edge of the glass. I use a IOR of 1.52 for the glass and 1.0 for the air surface. The liquid has a IOR of 1.33. Make sure that the glass, the air and the liquid all have the same smooth threshold. I also use a gradient set on incidence angle for reflection and transparency. Specularity is set to 0%. Florian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limbus Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Have newtek any plans to rewrite their rendering engine, I think it is long over due..... If was to go free lance i always thought i would use lightwave cost alone would sway the balance. To think you could get a good machine , and the software for the same price as max. You get waht you pay for they say....do you I wonder? phil Rendering in 9 is alot faster especially for heavy polycounts but they did not work much on the GI speed. Background Radiosity is usable for outdoor shots but for indoor images you would need to light it the old school way or get fprime or kray. KRay is a VRay like GI renderer and fprime is an insnaley fast interactive renderer. FPrime -> http://www.worley.com - kray -> http://www.kraytracing.com Florian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otacon Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Thanks for those settings. Iain, my IOR for glass was 1.52, and i used a gradient for reflection, transparency, and diffuse. I pretty much always use the same settings limbus posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 Ahh I always have quite a high spec setting. I must try that. Thanks for the info. To go back to Philip's questions about LW, I would add that if you buy it just now, you get an amazing plugin suite called LWCad which gives the program CAD modelling functions. It's probably worth the £500 alone for our purposes. I think the free Vue 5 offer is now over which is a shame as it's fun and useful for backdrop generation etc but still you can't argue it's great value for money as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limbus Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Ahh I always have quite a high spec setting. I must try that. Thanks for the info. And make sure the glass has someting with high contrast to reflect. Preferably a HDRI Image or some geometry with high luminosity setting. Florian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warprat Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Well Here is another with the polygon flip. does'nt seem I got it right this time, try again. Uhh guys What is IOR?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 IOR - Index Of Refraction If you do a google search you'll find a list if indices for glass, air, water etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 Another experiment using no specularity. Bit bumpier and thicker as it's supposed to be old glass. These are some of the bottles from the CGTalk challenge with my materials and light set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzon Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 ian, i think that is far too good ..because of the caustic effect and i like the gloss at the coffeepot but just wondering how do you get surrounding illumination at the coffeepot pic..it look really smooth and real... i'm actually didnt practice enough studying the ambience for such thing...( i mean coffeepot or glass ) just experimenting the surrounding rendering....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted June 15, 2006 Author Share Posted June 15, 2006 I'm not sure what effect you mean. It was rendered with FPrime's monte carlo radiosity using area lights. Hope that helps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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