Archicad vs Revit

[Arquis]

Hi, Guys. New around here.

 

Freshed out from architecture school in Brazil I am a bit curious about BIM Technologies. A friend of mine showed me a copy of archicad in action, and i've read some about Revit from Autodesk. I just plainly hate Autocad and ADT, so I was wandering about other aplications.

 

Which app is best suited for someone working solo like me? Archicad or Revit?

I heard very nice things about Archicad, but at the end of the day I worry about availability of 3d libraries and interoperability with industry standard tools.

 

Any tips would be welcome.

 

Thanks.

[Brian Smith]

If BIM is your game, definitely avoid ADT like you said. I have no experience with Archicad but I like Revit very much and find it no where as difficult to learn as ADT back during release 3 (haven't tried since). But I would say that even if Archicad and Revit were equal in ease of use, quality, and speed, I would opt for the program made by the same company that makes the leading 3D visualization software, Revit. If you choose Revit, you'll probably find it easier integrating with Max or Viz.

[bricklyne]

Hi, Guys. New around here.

 

Freshed out from architecture school in Brazil I am a bit curious about BIM Technologies. A friend of mine showed me a copy of archicad in action, and i've read some about Revit from Autodesk. I just plainly hate Autocad and ADT, so I was wandering about other aplications.

 

Which app is best suited for someone working solo like me? Archicad or Revit?

I heard very nice things about Archicad, but at the end of the day I worry about availability of 3d libraries and interoperability with industry standard tools.

 

Any tips would be welcome.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

The best advice would be to download or get a demo of both programs and try them out for yourself. Both programs have very loyal user-bases and you're highly unlikely to get an unbiased opinion on which would best suit your particular need; at the end of the day, only You know best, what works best for you.

 

 

P.S. Since you asked, I should point out that ArchiCAD has probably the largest parametric 3D library of Architectural and GDL objects available out of the box and alos through various online resources. and it also has one of the widest range of interoperability with other Industry standard programs and applications that I have ever come across; transferring your models to 3D Max, Viz or other visualisation software is not a problems thanks to the many options available for exporting the model. But try them both out and decide for yourself.

[Arquis]

Argh! The more I research the more BIM looks daunting for organic modelling. And I do not wish to buy CINEMA 4D and MAXONFORM.

 

Hope Revit is better but a comparison will be hard as only Autodesk offers a trial download.... Errr. At the end of the day I guess money will decide...

 

But thanks for the quick reply.

[Cesar R]

Argh! The more I research the more BIM looks daunting for organic modelling. And I do not wish to buy CINEMA 4D and MAXONFORM.

 

Hope Revit is better but a comparison will be hard as only Autodesk offers a trial download.... Errr. At the end of the day I guess money will decide...

 

But thanks for the quick reply.

 

 

Archicad you need serverl plugins to accomplish task that revit can perform ouf of the box. In the even you need a custom window type for example you need to get into GDL, whereas Revit's family editor is so robust and integrated - makes design a breeze !

 

interoperability on both apps is great!

PS. BIM is not a technology is an approach to the way a project is desinged documented and build... ect

 

Download a trial of revit you can use it for 30 days i think with saves. If you need more help drop me a line

 

I was actually wondering - for those in favor of archicad.. why is that?

[bricklyne]

Archicad you need serverl plugins to accomplish task that revit can perform ouf of the box. In the even you need a custom window type for example you need to get into GDL, whereas Revit's family editor is so robust and integrated - makes design a breeze !

interoperability on both apps is great!

PS. BIM is not a technology is an approach to the way a project is desinged documented and build... ect

Download a trial of revit you can use it for 30 days i think with saves. If you need more help drop me a line

I was actually wondering - for those in favor of archicad.. why is that?

 

Have you ever used archicad, yourself? Or are you just spouting the company line? Using GDL to make windows? Seriously?

 

You guys never cease to amaze. Always the best source of advice for a product: from people who've never actually used the product themselves.

 

If you're trying to bait people into an archicad vs revit flamewar, you're going to have to come up with better material than that.

[Cesar R]

Have you ever used archicad, yourself? Or are you just spouting the company line? Using GDL to make windows? Seriously?

You guys never cease to amaze. Always the best source of advice for a product: from people who've never actually used the product themselves.

If you're trying to bait people into an archicad vs revit flamewar, you're going to have to come up with better material than that.

 

 

Like I asked, if you like archicad so much, tell us why?

yes I did use it at one point I think ver 7 and 8 and It was okay. when it came to building custom objects is a paint "slab tool fest" - be polite and educate us =)

 

and yes its part of my job to talk "bad" about archicad - i work for an autodesk reseller

[mooney102]

I use revit for the my models everyday, I think that it great with one issue. I was wondering if anyone could help with layering in Revit. I am having problems with duplicate layers when importing to max. I believe that revit creates multiple layers for, say for example a wall. ex. CMU, Gyp, 2x4..... When inside max this creates multiple overlapping layers, which then have to be deleated. Any input?

[bricklyne]

Like I asked, if you like archicad so much, tell us why?

yes I did use it at one point I think ver 7 and 8 and It was okay. when it came to building custom objects is a paint "slab tool fest" - be polite and educate us =)

 

and yes its part of my job to talk "bad" about archicad - i work for an autodesk reseller

 

 

It depends on why you're asking me to "educate" you, or why you're asking me to tell why I like ArchiCAD so much. Are you asking because you want me to play a role in your thinly veiled attempt at slagging off the software ( given how you already initially dismissively described it and "explained" one of its functions), or are you aksing because you're actually interested in knowing why? If it's the former, then, like I said before, you'll have to come up with better material than that. If, on the other hand, it's for the latter reason, then seeing as you claim to have used it for 2 previous versions and found it okay, it couldn't possibly have been that bad, to the degree that I'm certain you must have come across features you like or at least appreciated in it. Well, all you have to do is take those features, and imagine them improved by at least 2 or so versions, and then you might understand why I like using ArchiCAD.

 

But if you want to get specific about it, then I would say that I specifically like the fact that ArchiCAD allows me the flexibility to DESIGN, and create without having to be cobbled down with the limits of a overly-constrained parametric engine (yes, in reference to Revit which I have also used), ArchiCAD is also a parametric program but not to the degree that Revit is, in the sense that doing certain things will not cause conflicts in its rules and parametric limits ( unless you set it to do so). In this regard ArchiCAD is closer to Sketchup (probably the best 3D conceptual modelling tool there is) than Revit is, by allowing architects to actually experiment, create and design and it also emphasizes more on the "B" (Building) part of BIM, than Revit which seems to be stronger on the "IM" (information management) part of it. At least that's my own personal experience from using both programs. Little things like using or working almost exclusively from the 3D window, which is not only more fluid with ArchiCAD, but takes quite a while before it begins to get choppy like it was for me with Revit. All of this while not diminishing any of the robust documentation tools it also has.

 

 

And on the subject of plug-ins, most of the plugins that exist for ArchiCAD already duplicate tasks that the main program itself can already do out of the box; only by following a different approach. The fact that plugins exist only means that it's easier for third party developers to develop plugins for the program (open API) and that the users have the luxury of choice in deciding how they like to accomplish certain tasks within the program. not to mention the fact that it considerably expands the functionality and verstality of the program itself, by giving the architect or designer to intergrate certain tasks ( energy-conversion calucations, structural analyses, part-manufacturer and schedule take-offs) which would otherwise be impossible to intergrate into the main program without bloating it and diminishing the effeciency of its core functions. So to point it ( the existence of plugins) out as a weakness, would be akin to saying that 3ds MAX is a lousy program simply because, in addition to scanline render, it also houses plugins for MentalRay, Vray, Finalrender, Maxwell. From my experience usng 3ds MAX, having all those options in addition to the native scanline renderer is boon as opposed to a weakness. And the same applies to other plugins in other programs as well. I don't see why it should be any different with ArchiCAD. If anything I would cringe at the lack of options ( i.e plugins) with a specific program which claims to be a do-it-all or atleast a program that makes it difficult for 3rd party developers to develop plug-ins for it. because if I happen to run into a task that has the most unfavourable workflow to accomplish it, then you're stuck with an all-or-nothing scenario. The way, I see it ,the more plugins (read: choice) the better for the end user, and the developers themselves who can then concetrate on making the program's basic functions even better.

 

Lastly, on the issue GDL programming, the old tired line, that has been long-used to discredit archiCAD, I myself have been using ArchiCAD for over 7 years now and have never once had to learn how to code a single line of gdl to do nor design anything. And as I pointed out to someone else who brought up the sme issue, I was nonetheless able to design an create the door I showed in the post linked below in a fraction of the time it took me to draw it; and without the use of plugins neither.

 

http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/14404-using-bim-real-world-post100225.html

 

People who say you need to know how to program in gdl to be able to do this or that in ArchiCAD, typically tend not know... a) what they're talking about or.... b)how to use the program. I wasn't certain which category you fell into, but since you state you have used the program before then I guess that clarifies things somewhat.

 

There's obviously more that I love about the program, but not wanting to sound like a product brochure, I'm going to limit myself to the above which are in reference to the ArchiCAD-Revit comparision and also in response to the points that you brought up.

[Cesar R]

People who say you need to know how to program in gdl to be able to do this or that in ArchiCAD, typically tend not know... a) what they're talking about or.... b)how to use the program. I wasn't certain which category you fell into, but since you state you have used the program before then I guess that clarifies things somewhat.

Well, I asked because I am ignorant. But i honestly did not expect such a detailed and to a point rude response. By the way, BIM stands for BUILDING INFORMATION MODELING.

next time, dont ruing a constructive post with a power trip!

feel free then to tell us how easy it is to create custom objects in archicad - because from my experience it was not.

[Cesar R]

Very nice door on the linked post, can you please explain how long it took you to model and what tools did you use? can you also tell me it is recognized as a door in a schedule?

 

Thanks

[bricklyne]

Very nice door on the linked post, can you please explain how long it took you to model and what tools did you use? can you also tell me it is recognized as a door in a schedule?

Thanks

 

 

As I mentioned originally, it took me less time to model it than it took me to design or draw it, thanks to all the 2D geometry I had to draft in. Both processes together took me just over a couple of hours or so, to do from sketch paper. I originally modelled this house in ArchiCAD 7.0 and hence used the only tools available at the time (i.e. magic wand, slab, wall, roof, basic primitives and geometries) and saved the completed model as a gdl door object through the 3D window. So yes, in answer to your other question, because I saved it as a door object, it is recognized as a door in schedule.

 

I recently updated the project with ArchiCAD 9.0 and more recent add-ons and was able to add additional parametric and native editing properties to the door using Doorbuilder; the only plugin involved in the process. But the original door obviously didn't require this plugin to be built, nor did I have to type a single line of GDL code (not that I would know how to anyway; I'm not a programmer). Any other questions?

 

Like I said before, it's all a matter of knowing how to use the program rather than dismissing it off-hand for lack of trying.

 

P.S.: by YOUR own admission you said that you asked because you were ignorant (prior post the the above quoted). This after I speculated that people who make these kinds of assertions (about having to know GDL to comfortably use ArchiCAD) usually tend to: a) not know what they are talking about (also referred to by some as being ignorant) or, b) not know how to use the program ( also justifiably due to ignorance or at least unfamiliarity resulting in ignorance). So how exactly was my post rude in making a speculation that you yourself confirmed to be the case, by YOUR own admission?

[Cesar R]

As I mentioned originally, it took me less time to model it than it took me to design or draw it, thanks to all the 2D geometry I had to draft in. Both processes together took me just over a couple of hours or so, to do from sketch paper. I originally modelled this house in ArchiCAD 7.0 and hence used the only tools available at the time (i.e. magic wand, slab, wall, roof, basic primitives and geometries) and saved the completed model as a gdl door object through the 3D window. So yes, in answer to your other question, because I saved it as a door object, it is recognized as a door in schedule.

I recently updated the project with ArchiCAD 9.0 and more recent add-ons and was able to add additional parametric and native editing properties to the door using Doorbuilder; the only plugin involved in the process. But the original door obviously didn't require this plugin to be built, nor did I have to type a single line of GDL code (not that I would know how to anyway; I'm not a programmer). Any other questions?

Like I said before, it's all a matter of knowing how to use the program rather than dismissing it off-hand for lack of trying.

P.S.: by YOUR own admission you said that you asked because you were ignorant (prior post the the above quoted). This after I speculated that people who make these kinds of assertions (about having to know GDL to comfortably use ArchiCAD) usually tend to: a) not know what they are talking about (also referred to by some as being ignorant) or, b) not know how to use the program ( also justifiably due to ignorance or at least unfamiliarity resulting in ignorance). So how exactly was my post rude in making a speculation that you yourself confirmed to be the case, by YOUR own admission?

 

 

...choice or words and the tone you senteces carry.

I realized you are a hardcore archicad user as I am one of Revit. But I am considering archicad once again due to my investement on an apple machine. like you mentioned, the times i had to create something custom I had to rig it with the slab tool and go into the 3D window and save it from there as a GDl object. I also remember that if I didnt have the view oriented right the object wouldnt be created correclty... maybe these items were fixed by 10?

 

I would really like to get my hands on a demo version of 10 and do some tutorials myself, but it's very hard to do so and they are my competition and they know me by name here locally. =(

[bricklyne]

Listen, I'm sorry if you got any rude intent in my post, I did not mean for it to come out that way. Perhaps ignorance was a poor choice of words; along with the tone as you stated.

 

In any case I can now understand what you mean. Yes, orienting the view in the 3D window is a big part of saving custom objects, but part of the reasoning behind that is that one can use the view orientation as an additional modelling aid. But the basic thing to remember is that archicad always reads objects from the plan or top view, and as such saving custom objects would require one to set the 3D window to parallel projection ( as opposed to perspective view) and then have the camera facing the side of the object you will want to be your top or plan view. This also used to trip me up when I first started using archicad until I realized why they did it that way. By adjusting the camera ( through the camera control window), you can

give the object a tilt or angle of inclination in that simple step.

 

In any case, it wasn't a case of an error to be fixed but rather understanding the reasoning behind why they do it that way. But you really should try ArchiCAD 10. not that I'm trying to sell it to you ( I wouldn't dare to be so presumptious with a hard core Reviter), but they have truly made massive improvements over the last 2 versions ( especially over version 8 which was just a bug-fest) and introduced some really robust tools that just enhance the program and the users design experience (check out the highlights at http://www.graphisoft.com/products/archicad/ac10/demo/). At the very least it should give you more things to demand of Revit developers for the next version they release; archiCAD users do the same with Revit and graphisoft devlopers - and they atually listened to a lot of the demands in this version. Obviously there are still some things that Revit will always do better than ArchiCAD and vice versa, but with each new release of each program, I get the sense that both programs seem to be tending towards each others' strengths and features. So maybe the healthy competition between them is good for both programs and their respective users. So go ahead an try it out - at the very least, as a Mac user you owe yourself that much.

 

Once again, I'm sorry for any misconstrued rudeness on my part.