Microstation

[RAYMOND]

isn't MS another $1000 more per seat than ADT... of which i don't think it is worth it..... i have modeled everything in ADT... however i don't do construction dwgs with it... but certainly could for that matter...

also, the link to viz or 3dMax is really a very nice package..

 

I would not only strongly support going into Bim... but think it is a slow suidcide if one doesn't ... the transition of course is not easy especially for those who still the think the world is flat and orthographic.. clients are expecting and wanting to see things in perspective.... that alone saves tons of misunderstanding and redesign....

 

my 3 cents:D

[RyanSpaulding]

Holy crap. Bentley is actually programming a MicroStation to Maxwell converter...

[Parker1]

Please give your source...

 

I sat and talked with someone very high up at Bentley recently and heard quite the opposite.

[cbot]

Hi Brian,

 

Yes,...there is a Beta translator for MS to Maxwell...

 

Contact Joe or Pete...they should be able to give you more info...

 

I have not had time to test it, but as far as I know, materials, etc. comes through...I speak under correction though...

 

Cheers

[Parker1]

I spoke too soon and had not checked the MS-VIS Newsgroup in awhile (because I am spending so much time over here). I can not believe they have gone to this level with Maxwell...I hung out with Pete for many hours at the DVC conference in Boston and he said they would not be doing anything like this any time soon. Oh well, go for it. Maybe they will do the same thing for the Vray stand alone renderer when it is available.

[Ivan Pajares]

MS user since '97. I can't say how happy I am of not using acad (and I was acad user since I was 15).

 

About the proposed workflow Parker suggests: I have been working that way for some time now with MS and VIZ and as long as you are careful with DWG saveas settings it works nicely. I have to say, though, that I think cardboard renderings should be done in MS to speedup the thinking & modelling task.

 

I'm an architect so my drawing process is quite slow. I model, then render, go back, render again, sketch, model, render again, etc. This process can't be done switching from MS to VIZ and viceversa. But once the project basic idea is there it definitely helps going to VIZ or MAX to play with lights & material.

 

The main issues I find rendering with MS are:

 

1.- poor memory usage

2.- no network rendering

3.- sloppy material assignment and editing

 

I really think we should all push for better integration between CAD and rendering packages. I don't like closed loops (like autodek's or bentley's) when it comes to workflow.

[aweber]

Hi everybody, (hola Iván), things have changed completely now. Having the possibility of a maxwell plugin for MS makes me forget (by now, we will see what happens) my plans of learning 3DS. Isn´t it your case? It makes me really happy. Everybody is now looking at the bentley discussion forums, i guess.

 

 

Great

[Parker1]

...things have changed completely now. Having the possibility of a maxwell plugin for MS

 

Why does this change anything? MAXWELL still takes a LONGGGGG time to render so it could be considered just as bad as particle tracing. Why render for 30+ hours when you could do just as good in 3 hours with V-Ray?

[Jeff Mottle]

You guys now have your own MicroStation forum. Sorry for the delay.

[F J]

OMG!!!weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

hi guys,

 

funny how i actually ended up bumping into this by accident lol

was just browsing n stuff n *SHAZAM*

 

i see im a few months behind on this..

hmmm, i liked this transition! real smoooooth! lol

 

will definately give a go to this workflow!

guess its needless to say i share every1's pain n frustration waiting/dreaming for some divine Particle Trace improvements (ugh! that construction approach )..

 

Sweeet!!! guess we got a forum!

although some of us may start mingling on the Max/Vray forums (as we should, for obvious reasons) i would agree to having our own dedicated MS space, cuz this modest group of ppl all come from the same background (B forum), n so i dont see a better way for us gettin' together cuz we'll all have this starting point in common (MS) n will face the exportation of our work into this new rendering environment..

 

PS: Bentley i still love u but i just hunger for perfection!

[aweber]

Parker, i don´t know nothing about maxwell and v-ray (i have seen the results, and they are both VERY good, and thats the important to me, better than MS Particle tracing). You are probably right, and maxwell takes a long time to render, but it makes a difference: for many years MS has been trying to remain an all in one solution. Now there is a new rendering plugin, and maybe there will be more. I mean that it looks as if there is a change in bentleys politic. Y think it would be a great thing staying all the the workflow on the same platform (MS), choosing your favorite renderplugin. (Besides, do you know if maxwell supports something like renderfarm?)

 

I hope you understand what i mean, its very difficult to express in a poor english.

 

regards

[GrimR]

Having been a MS user since '95, modelling and struggling with its rendering engine over the years, it is indeed pleasing to partake in a MS forum talking about viz workflows.

 

The MAX/VIZ-Vray with MS workflow has been well-publicised, but I wonder are there more cost-effective methods? MS is an already considerable investment, and adding VIZ with V-ray costs about Aus$4000/license... not a cheap add-on especially for smaller practices.

 

I'm exploring other modelling and/or rendering avenues. Lightwave3D v9 and Luxology's Modo 202 are cheaper and quicker alternatives. Their rendering quality seem to be close to Maxwell's level, and definitely a lot quicker. I think they have got DXF/DWG import capabilities, though I do not know how robust they are. Check out Otacon's archviz renderings here in the forum to get a feel of the level one can obtain from Lightwave... pretty impressive!

 

Has anyone here explored Lightwave, Modo or even Cinema4D?

[Justin Hunt]

A few years back we did explore the MS to Lightwave6.5 route.

 

Saved out of MS as AsisSAT -> Polytrans -> Lightwave.

 

In Lightwave had to scale down by 0.001, weld and remove excess surfaces, assign surface names and rename objects. Created the scene and rendered.

 

It was a pain in the a$$ if the model had to be changed back in MS as the process had to be done again. It worked but was very inefficient.

 

I can say if there is a better way with lightwave8. Modo looks promising but once again no direct route between the to packages.

 

JHV

[rpompeu]

Hi everyone!

I just found this forum and is exactly what I was looking for.

I've working in Microstations since the SE version and since the V8 its rendering power has increased a lot, but nothing that we can compare with V-Ray and others renderers.

I got that beta plugin that exports the dgn to Maxwell and to adjust the file for rendering and the rendering results are great but I can't afford a 30 hour plus rendering process...

I was searching the web for a new way to render my designs when I found this forum and I think I'll give a try to that workflow, even though I don't know how to work with Max. If I do just like the workflow says, just the rendering part in Max, is it easy to learn?

I really need to learn another render engine because I think I can cut a lot of Photoshop time with better renders.

 

 

P.S.: If you guys take a look at www.panoramad.com.br you can see some of my work, all made just with MicroStation and Photoshop.

[aweber]

I got that beta plugin that exports the dgn to Maxwell and to adjust the file for rendering and the rendering results are great but I can't afford a 30 hour plus rendering process...

 

Hi Rpompeu, wellcome to MS forum. Could you please tell me what plugin you are talking about? I am at the same point you are, i would like to step into 3DS, but it looks too difficult if you have been rendering with MS since phong was the best of the best. On the other side i heve triedto export into VUE INFINITE, but i have too many problems exporting into dxf, so i don´t find my way. Now i have heard about this maxwell plugin for microstation (bentley discussion groups), is this the plugin you are talking about?

 

regards

[rpompeu]

Hi aweber, thanks for the welcoming.

This is the file I received from Bentley. It's a beta so they distribute just for those who really want to try it out and feedback they with informations to make it work better. If you decide to use it please feedback they at the bentley forum.

I was really excited when I first read this plugin and saw the power of maxwell, but now I'm very disapointed with the render time in maxwell...

[Parker1]

That is what I keep telling you guys...all the pretty pictures on the Maxwell site make everyone salivate but in reality it just simply will not cut it in a true production environment. This is why we invested a great deal of time and energy into making the Microstation/Vray work flow happen. Great quality in production level time frames.

 

Good luck.

[Justin Hunt]

If you cant afford the vray route, then have a look at Max9, the new mentalray improvments make it a great alternitive to Vray, especially if you are doing exteriors.

 

JHV

[rpompeu]

Hi guys,

After a month trying th Maxwell exporter, I think I'll give up it. The rendering time is something I can't handle. Now I'm really into the Max and V-Ray process. I have a friend that works with Max and vray and he introduced me to this rendering process and then I realized: WTF I was doing rendering in Miscrostation! VRay has a marvelous GI that is calculated 10 times faster then a particle trace solution and also looks 10 times better.

Well, but I don1t know nothing in Max, where do you guys think is the best resources for us?

Thanks in advance

[Justin Hunt]

The max tutorials are second to none in getting started. Once you have the basics and want to get into Vray, look at the Gnomon DVD's, they are top notch and very detailed. More importantly they are production relevant.

 

Good luck and if all else fails just post your questions here

 

JHV

[aweber]

Hi all. Maybe you are right, R.Pomeu (thanks for the plugin) Maxwell takes a lot to render. I have been also trying it this last month. The results are really very good, but rendertime doesn´t let you produce, unless you have a big renderfarm. But you have the advantage you can use MS materials and lights, applied in MS. Imagine you need several still images, but also a panorama view. For the stills you would export to maxwell, but for pano you have your materials in MS attached.

 

On the other side the ·3DS-way still has the problem for me with the export to dwg. This is the part i don´t get right done.

 

I would like to place a question: what does "dinamically link the dwg" mean on PARKERS (thankyou Parker) workflow. Does it mean that you can make changes on your DGN and they will automatically appear in 3DS? And if yes, how is this to be done?

 

I think i will give 3DS a chance. I have heard about this book: "3DS Max8 Architectural Visualization". It sounds good, and i have heard it is for people who does not necesary model in 3DS, by Brian L. Smith. What do you think.

 

Thats all, best regards

[Parker1]

Aweber,

 

You start by modeling in Microstation. You then export to DWG (see my previous post on the setting to use for the export procedure). Once in MAX you go to 'FILE' - 'FILE LINK MANAGER' (see attached) and then press the 'ATTACH' 'FILE' button...browse to your DWG that you just made. The DWG will now be linked into an empty MAX scene for you to light, add materials, and then render. Because you have linked the DWG file dynamically to make edits all you need to do is open the DWG file in Microstation (V8 or higher) and make your changes. Once back in MAX, go back to that 'FILE LINK MANAGER' box and you see that the DWG file shows up as a red flag, that is because you need to 'RELOAD' the DWG by clicking the 'RELOAD' button. MAX will refresh the DWG and you will see your changes have been made. It is a very seamless, and efficient work-flow.

 

Brian Smith's book is very good and should be on your reference shelf. I actually took MAX and VRAY training with him personally in Orlando Florida and was up and running very quickly.

 

By the way, I still assign materials in Microstation to look at my models as I am initially building them (it takes only a few minutes to texture a scene in MS as you know). Once in MAX I retexture my models with Vray materials and use Vray lighting which are both far superior to MS.

[aweber]

thanks Brian for the explanation. I have looked at yout previous post, for the dwg settings. But i still get very strange things. I have also forced both sides in 3ds settings. But still some solids appear as sufaces. And i don´t know what the problem is. Could it be possible if you attach your dwg settings file here?

 

But i think its more a problem the way the solid was constructed in MS, i mean if it is a primitive, or an extruded solid out of a closed linestring, or whatever.... I will make some experiments with this.

 

regards

[F J]

hey aweber,

go back to "July 7th, 2006" n read what Kurt said about the tool "mesh from element", that oughta do it..

 

hey Parker,

would u mind shedding some light about the v-ray materials?

i mean, usually texture packs come with 3 files (text. itself, bump file, alpha file).. isnt this enough to make it happen?

sorry bout my starting the questions already, cuz i still havent really set foot into this workflow, as im still sorting out some issues about my new system..

but im almost there

for the most part im just keeping an eye out for this forum, so i dont miss a thing

[aweber]

Hi all. I have been giving the 3DS-VRAY way a try, and i have to say y works great. But I still have some problems, maybe somebody can help.

 

First i have a problem with some curves. I opened a MS8 file with MS XM, and then exported it to dwg. Sroke tolerance was set to 0,5, and than i tried again setting it to 0,1. I linked to 3DS following Parker´s settings. and in the first image you can see my problem with curved solid. Curve steps is set to 100, but maybe there is something else i could touch. Does anyone have the same problem?

 

The second problem i have seems to be a scale problem, but i cannot find where it is. You can see it at the second image. Rectangle at the left side of the image is a MS-DWG linked to 3ds. The rectangle at the right was constructed in 3ds with similar size. But when i attach the same wood vray material to both rectangles it won´t do it at the same scale. The side of both rectangles is aprox. 10m. But i have to scale the wood maps to 0,01 to fit correct. On the 3DS rectangle than it´s 100 times bigger than it should. I´m sure this must have a very easy solution, but i really cannot find it.

 

Thanks and best regards