I would like advice on getting a job?

[Eezo]

Ok I know this question gets asked allot so but I am going to ask anyway so sorry for those of you who have seen this all before.

 

How the hell am I supposed to get into the industry? I have just finished a degree in computer animation and I am trying to get into the arch viz industry but I am finding it very hard to even find jobs. I have been looking on the net but most jobs I find want someone with architectural knowledge and unfortunately that’s not me.

 

Are there agencies out there that recruit for this line of work and if so do you have some names/links for me? I live in the UK by the way and I am willing to relocate myself if I have to.

 

I have also noticed almost al the jobs I have seen have asked for knowledge of max/viz and AutoCAD, max and viz are not a problem for me but I have never even opened AutoCAD. I intend to try and teach it to myself the program and was just wondering what the learning curve was like, how long should I expect it to take to pick up the basics?

 

Thanks a lot for reading and too anyone who replies as this is seriously starting to wind me up now.

[STRAT]

cg architecture, especially in the uk, is something you usually start off in right at the bottom of the ladder. you dont just walk straight out of college with a list of exam passes straight into a cg modelling/rendering possition. unless ur one of the lucky few.

 

and you're right again - most architectural practices require autocad experience. but more importantly, they require a sound architectural knowlege. without these 2 you wont stand much chance as you stand. unless of course your 3d archi portfolio talks for itself, but if it did you wouldnt be desparate for work.

 

some alternatives are to do a 1 day per week college course in architecture whilst within an architectural practice. or do a full time college course.

 

or, learn the uk s/w standards (max or viz/vray/photoshop & autocad) backwards, get a top notch 3d archi portfolio together where employers will bite your left arm off to employ you.

 

or start free lancing looking for work like allot of us here do.

 

why not follow up a career more suited to your degree then? i pressume you took it for that reason in the first place?

 

cg architecture is a very tallent orientated business. the guys who do it are usually very artistic. something that learning software wont really give you. what's your cg art like at the moment? does it have potential? can you post up something to show us? if your answer is no, then i fear back to college is the best solution. besides, you're still at the most tender age of 21. yeeeeaaaarrrrss to go yet. also, you wont make much out of this proffession, financially speaking in the uk, until ur atleast banging on 30 with years of experience behind you.

 

sorry to put a downer on things, but unless you stand out from the crowd this line of business is more a passion than anything. you wont roll in it in the uk, and everything takes time. not as glamerous a job as it looks at first glance.

[Eezo]

Well thanks for the reply STRAT I have to say it didn’t really fill me with confidence, the thing is I don’t really want to go and do more courses at uni/college as I am in enough debt already and I am sick to death of it. I don’t no anymore maybe this was a bad career choice, most of the people on my course are going into the games industry but I would like to avoid that like the plague to be honest as I have herd allot of horror stories. I don’t really no what else I am going to be able to do with a degree in computer animation I don’t think there are that many opportunities for guy like me or are there?

 

This is my current demo reel http://www.carlgissing.com/demoreel.rar its not a large file only about 7 megs.

 

Most of the work on there I would like to update or just plain re-do, I also want to add allot more exterior renders to it. I don’t think its going to stand up to some of the best work here but I would like to think it's good for a graduate.

 

Please let me know what you think of it. Good or bad at lease it helps me in the long run.

[JamesTaylor]

I don't think the outlook is as grim as Strat makes out.........(could be having a bad day......!!!!)

 

i started in the industry having studied a similar degree as yourself, Multimedia Design at leicester De Montfort Uni and am now do well for myself at the age of 24, and almost two years working full time.

 

i'd would say that learning autocad will be a definate denefit in getting a job and after that you need to be able to read standard architectural drawings. I don't think a great architectural knowledge is needed, as long as you know the basics you'll pick it bits as you go along.....after all, all the infomation should be on the drawings, so if you can read them you'll be OK!! Again i have no formal architectural training... I know plenty of people who have come into this industry via interior design, again they don't have massive architectural training.

 

You just need to keep knocking on the doors and eventually you'll get your opportunity, there are people out there who will be looking for people to train from the basics etc., in fact your timing is a little unfortunate as i will be searching for staff to train at some point in the not so distant future, but we'll have to move offices 1st and i can't do anything until then.

 

You say you want to avoid to the games industry, which i'd agree with - i'd guess from seeing how your mates have got on that its no easy job to secure a position, from my knowledge many of the available positions in the games industry will require you to work for nothing for a period 1st so they can have a look at you.....(most likely judging your brew making skills).....with no gaurentee of being taking on..

 

just keep practicing, improving your portfolio, learn 3d Autocad skills and keeping putting your CV around etc

[Ray]

I won't say that formal architecture training is essential, but it sure would help. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of people who do this full time started as cad drafters or architects and it was a natural transition for someone with the desire and the talent. You have to do more than just read a set of drawings--you have to speak the architects' language. That was the hardest part for me--someone with no formal architectural training.

[Devin Johnston]

To be honest I agree with STRAT the fact that you have no architectural experience is going to be the biggest problem for you. In most cases regardless of how good your computer skills are you will be expected to transform complicated 2D drawings into 3D models. This may seem simple at first but reading these type of drawings is a critical skill that does take time to develop especially if you are expected to construct something form them. Not knowing AutoCAD is another strike against you but this can be learned relatively quickly. I wouldn’t say what you want to do is imposable but you have to be realistic and think about it form the employers perspective, why hire someone who can't use the software and who your going to have to train how to read CD's. I'd recommend going into the gaming industry so you can pay your bills, then you can start teaching your self the things you need to know in order to enter the field you really want to be in.

[JamesTaylor]

i think there is a big difference between not having architectural experience and being able to read orthographic drawings, which plans and elevations are basically. i leant to read these type of drawings in design class at school and from a year spent working as a product designer before entering the arch viz industry.

 

Equally the idea of a set of orthographic projections is to enable someone who doesn't know the product to be able to build it in 3d, either physically or on computer, if you can read plans and elevations you have enough architectural experience to start as a junior in an arch viz practice IMHO.

 

As Maxer and Strat said earlier definately get to grips with AutoCAD 3d Modelling as its the most commonly used method of modelling for arch viz and the majority of architects use dwg compliant systems

 

i'd also steer clear of the games industry if your heart isn't in it, from my knowledge it'll cost you more getting to work etc than you'll earn for the 1st 6 months....if they keep you on.......

 

At university, games design was the most popular module that people choose to undertake, with 2 sessions a week of about 50 -75 students, to my knowledge only one person managed to gain a trail placement after months of knocking on doors

[Justin Hunt]

I dissagree that it is absolutly essential to have a formal degree in architecture, but it is important to have a through understanding of architecture.

 

Its going to take alot of pavment pounding and knocking on doors to get into this industry. I took me 6 months of looking to land my first job, but once you are in to gets alost easier. In fact Arch Viz has taken me around the world.

 

Try as much as possible to keep out of the games industry if you want to go the arch viz route. Whilst I was working in the UK we interviewed alost of people getting out if the games and into arch viz. There maybe some crossover but its even harder than starting afreash. At one stage I tried going the other way and was constantly told that I could only do architectural stuff, no matter how mush I said "No, its what I have been doing, but its not the only thing I can do"

 

Chin up, talk to as many people you can and send you portfolio out to as many companies as possible. Don't just rely on your web folio, get prints, put you details on the back and pass them out.

 

JHV

[mahorela]

4 or 5 years ago I found myself in a very similiar position, a degree without experience was virtually useless. I put together a portfolio, got myself a business name and wen't out and got clients myself. It was tough at first, but because noone was willing to give me experience, I went out and got it myself. As time went on I continued to work hard on my portfolio and skills with every spare moment and then I started getting calls like "We have seen your work and want you to talk to you about working for us".

 

keep at your skills and your portfolio, if it's good enough you will not be denied.

[FlytE]

Be under no illusions, in Archviz it is the architectural training that will set you apart from the rest. If you dont have formal training or a degree in architecture, you are in the same boat as any other 3D modeller applying for the position.

 

My advice is to build as architecturally biased a portfolio as you can, not just of 3D images, but of accompanying sketches and studies as well. This should demonstrate your thinking and will hopefully show that you take a more analytical approach to your 3D work.

 

Whatever you do, dont show them fancy animations of bouncing balls and swimming fish characters etc.... they just wont be interested.

[doodler]

I would not let this put you off, it helps but I can guarantee that if you applied at our studio with an in depth understanding of V-ray and max you will be on a better footing than a fully or part qualified Architect who has no knowledge of the software / tools for the job.

 

its horses for courses, mate.

 

if you have a basic grasp of the software and you are willing to start at the bottom then you will pick up the information you need very quickly and it really isnt hard to read a set of CAD plans, 9 times out of 10 they dont tally up or match anyhow...

 

dont give up and good luck.

[Eezo]

Well thanks for all the replies there seems to be a clear difference of opinion on whether I need to have a grasp of architecture or not, I wonder why that is?

 

I don’t intend to give up I have not gone to university and worked hard for the last 3 years to give up now, it may take me a bit longer but ill get there in the end. I am willing to start at the bottom and work my way up. I think the best thing I can do for now is keep applying to studios and work on my portfolio as much as possible and defiantly learn AutoCAD.

 

Nobody has really answered my question on how hard it is to learn, I have been told it is fairly easy to learn AutoCAD after learning max but I don’t know if there is any truth in it?

[Devin Johnston]

Well thanks for all the replies there seems to be a clear difference of opinion on whether I need to have a grasp of architecture or not, I wonder why that is?

I'd say the people who are saying this are the ones who were able to get into the field and had very little architectural experience. It's not imposable to do but your going to save your self a lot of headache if you take the time to learn the basics.

 

I'd say you could probably learn AutoCAD fairly well if you spent a month using it.

[Justin Hunt]

Possibly true, as one who has never studied architecture and turned down offors to study architecture, it has never gotten in my way, infact I have gotten jobs over architects because of this, and this was early in my career.

 

What this industry is poorly lacking is people who can render, and I mean in the artistic sence. Over the years I have interviewed many people who can build a great model, read plans, help design but very few of them can create a beautiful image. Very few of them have the "eye" to create well composed scenes that tell the story and engages the viewer, getting them excited about the project. Just as designers are dime a dozen but great designers are rear as hens teeth so are great renderers.

 

I earn the big bucks because of my artistic skills and not for an architectural degree. To get into and ahead of this game you have to set yourself apart from the rest and get noticed.

 

JHV

[Ray]

. . . well composed scenes that tell the story and engages the viewer, getting them excited about the project . . .

That's what I keep saying--your scene has to have a story--not just (in a Mongo voice) "Model building, put in trees, cars, people. Done." Grunt!

 

Anyway, stick with it, learn the software, keep applying.

[FlytE]

What this industry is poorly lacking is people who can render, and I mean in the artistic sence. Over the years I have interviewed many people who can build a great model, read plans, help design but very few of them can create a beautiful image. Very few of them have the "eye" to create well composed scenes that tell the story and engages the viewer, getting them excited about the project. Just as designers are dime a dozen but great designers are rear as hens teeth so are great renderers.

 

Im sorry but I disagree with this. You are only demonstrating one side of the argument as you can easily argue that there are many many people who can read plans, make great models etc who also have an 'eye' for a composed scene. I was favoured for my current position over someone with literally more than 3 times as much experience as me, but because of my architectural background it was felt that I would suit the position better. While I dont like to blow my own trumpet I like to think that I bring this creativity you talk of to my images, and lo and behold... I am architecturally trained and can also read plans!!

 

At the end of the day eezo, it is my opinion that you need to really love what you are creating in order to create it well. At the very least you need to have a good understanding of it. If architectural training is not something you want to undertake, I recommend in your own time that you at least research a little into architecture and archviz. Its not exactly wasted time - you'll be modelling buildings after all

 

As for autocad, its probably a good thing to have under your belt. Even if it is just enough knowledge to open a plan, strip it down to the bare essentials, and export it to a your favoured modelling program to model over. If you have the time to sit down and learn the program exclusively, you could probably figure out the basics in a week and the guts of what you need to know in about 2 weeks. Thats a loose estimation though, knowing nothing of your ability to learn software

[Justin Hunt]

I suppose that I am coming from the angle that you don't have to be an architect to do architectural visualisation. In a way we are actually arguing the same point. I am just saying that you don't need an architectural degree to be able to read plans.

 

There is more to visualisation than modelling and texturing, those are learnt skills that anyone can be taught. I have seen many well modelled scenes that have been poorly rendered, to the detriment of the project. In the same way I have seen alot of poor designs and models that have been well rendered to the benifit of the project. In fact I am working on one right now, where the designers don't want to and don't have time to put into fixing some blatant poor design issues, nor do I have the time to do their job for them. What I am trying to say is let the architects consentate on the architecture and let us visualizers consentrate on illustrating their designs in the best way possible.

 

Never in my 12 year career has anyone said to me "sorry I cant give you a job because you don't have an architectural degree". Most of the time it is assumed I do. So much so that many a time my suggestions to improve the design are taken on board or its me telling the architect that his design will not work. I have worked in architectural firms, dedicated visualisation companies and now have my own visualisation company. I have and do work in all spectrums of the process from concept and development through to marketing and construction.

 

It is not nessesary to do a 7 year architectural degree on top of the three year degree that Eezo has already done. After all he isn't studying to become a doctor. I do advocate and agree with what you are saing about researching to fully understand architecture, that is important and I have never said otherwise.

 

JHV

[FlytE]

Yes I wasnt trying to say that he should go get a 7 year degree as well. Anyway, I think consensus exists there somewhere so I will leave it at that.

[Justin Hunt]

Sure:)

 

From all this I can diduce that it is important to imerse yourself in the architecture world to get the most our of architectural visualisation;)

 

Good luck and welcome to this wonderful industry

 

JHV

[mauarduz]

youre out of computer animation school, there are many options for you, advertising is one of them, thousands of products today are marketed through digital media, dont look at architecture CG only

 

goto tv stations, advertising agencies, print publishing houses, you can illustrate and animate cheer up ur in the game

[doodler]

to Answer your question, its fairly simple to pick up the skills needed to get you to a level where you will be editing CAD drawings so you can model a building...

 

its not that hard....

[Simon Moir]

21? Sick of Debt? Try a mortgage! Why don't you want a job in Games? All experience counts, at your age, fresh from college, you shouldn't really turn your nose up at any job that gets the ball rolling. I didn't have any architectural training when I started Arch Viz, I've learnt on the job. But, I did have 5 - 6 years experience in other CG industries, and a healthy portfolio because of this.

I have no doubt whatsoever that some form of architectural education would help a great deal. If I were in a cynical mood, I might say for no reason other than you'll be interviewed by an Architect for most positions you apply for, and they do take their profession seriously. But, just as fantastic character modellers bang on about a traditional art background, they do have a point.

However, a demonstrable aptitude and genuine enthusiasm for architecture can count for a lot if you've already got your portfolio nailed. If I may make a suggestion regarding yours, forget generic, Evermotion-type interiors, there are thousands of people worldwide who can do these really, really well. Subscribe to the AJ or BD, you'll discover the type of projects that UK firms (that might consider employing, i.e. be able to afford a dedicated visualizer) are working on.

Finally, you will have to master AutoSNOOZE I'm afraid.

[chx]

As working in archviz.. well sometimes, the most difficult part for me is having a discution with an architect.. Reading plans is kinda easy, but when you don't understand something, you've got to use the good words when talking with the client. Luckily I'm not alone and every day I learn stuff. I got a lot of luck finding a job, mainly because my renderings impressed my employer. I'd like to fully work on archviz, learn more and more, but I don't think I would be able to find another job in archviz if I had to lose my current job, mainly cause I simply don't have any architectural qualification, so I guess it's something you MUST have. At least for the understanding of technial stuff.

[aaron-cds]

If you really want to get into arch-viz and learn about architectural terminology and technology, look for a job in a large architectural firm as a visualization intern. Many of the larger firms in the states have several in-house people to do the renderings. The only time they hire consultants is when they need the sexy marketing image, and based on your real, you're not close to that point. I'm not sure you'll be able to get a job at an arch-viz firm with that portfolio. However, I could see you getting a job easily at an architecture firm. There, you would have the benefit of learning about architectural drawings by asking many questions. You need to start building your portfolio with real work now. With experience in an architectectural firm you'll be able to build a portfolio that could land you a job in an arch-viz office. All you would need is about a 2-3 years of this kind of internship. That would most certainly be better than going back to school. That should be the last resort.

 

Learning to use autocad is like learning how to use a typewriter. Once you learn how to use a typewriter that doesn't make you a writer now does it? Many people have the misconception that learning autocad will allow them to understand the architectural drawings. Autocad is just another tool, easily learned in a few weeks. If you can't read plans, elevations and sections the autocad drawings are just going to be a bunch of pretty yellow, red, cyan and magenta lines.

 

Get a job in an architect's office and be a sponge.

[Devin Johnston]

Another benefit of architectural training is you will understand the terminology and the concepts that the architect is trying to communicate through his design. I would find it extremely difficult to walk into a field that I knew nothing about and expect to be able to communicate on the same level with the professionals that work there. Architecture is more than just reading plans, you have to understand form and function, materials, design concepts and theories and you need to know how to communicate all of those things in a cohesive way. All of those things can do nothing but help you in your dealings with Architects and designers.