why use file linking?

[John Dollus]

There was an interesting post on File Linking recently and I have a few related questions:

 

The 3D industry took years to get away from modular workflow such as creating shapes in one 'module' and having to switch to a different 'module' for things like lighting and rendering (old 3D Dos guys and Lightwave users will remember this). File linking seems to be a return to this methodology.

 

With file linking, can you make quick 3d changes such as removing and adding detail to/from a model that has been linked or must you open the DWG file back up in ADT,Revit, ACAD or whatever application?

 

When applications do not release updates at the same time, how does that affect your workflow?

 

With rendering features built into AutoCAD, why would someone use file linking with Viz?

 

I can understand if the office is setup for a complete BIM situation but, with firms large enough to benefit from the integration there are always a few graduate architects that do not have any idea what they are doing with the data and either explode everything down or don't use the systems inherent in the software so the DWG file is half BIM and half lines and circles.

[Tim Nelson]

Well I think for somebody who is an autocad modeler, the file link utility is extremely useful.

 

Once you link the drawing to viz or max, you must manually reload the file in max if you have made changes to the model in autocad. But again, it is very convenient if you are more comfortable making the geometry changes in autocad. However, if you adjust the linked geometry in Max, it will not translate back to your autocad model.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

"Why use FileLinking"

 

...because it rocks.

 

it doesn't matter if the software(s) are not releasing updates at the same time because you are using a generic format. you can export a DWG from almost any application, and link it directly into Max, and update it without a problem.

 

it used to be when i wanted to model in FormZ, and export to Max, I had to wait until the model was complete to expot it. ...adn if there were changes later, i had to export the entire model again, and retexture it when i got into max, and apply any modifiers or anything else i may have done.

 

with file linking, i can make changes to the model, and just hit update in max. my scene stays just the way i had it except it updates the geometry, and textures automatically for me.

 

it was important for me to go into max to animate and render because that is where the majority of the popular render engines were being developed. with engines becoming available for other apps, it will not be such a big deal.

[Ray]

Since we model w/ autocad and use those models in our exterior elevation drawings, I have to use file linking w/ viz for renderings, otherwise I would never be able to make the hourly changes that the architects come up with!

[cdos00]

I agree on all points and positions already stated. I believe File Linking is allowing the industry to develop MANY different combinations of workflows. Not every iffice has someone who is dedicated to modeling. Often times it is just "somebody" on the team. It is easier to teach someone to model in a program they are already used to (Acad) and then teach them the skills needed to render than to try and teach them to make geometry in a whole new way on a different platform. Unfortunately I am still an Acad modeler, I just haven't take the time to learn MAX the way I should. I can get my renders out, I can get MOST of my geometry made in ACAD and that suits me. for now.

[Justin Hunt]

I agree with Crazy Homless Guy, in the past I only modelin Max and was very fast and considered people who modeling ACAD gluttens for punishment Overtime I have gotten more and more involved in the design development end if visualisation. Years ago the ability to extract plans and elevations was a by-product of building in 3D, now its the other way round.

 

In order to deliver clean 2D elevations from the 3D model it was easier and more productive to switch to modeling in ADT and linking into Max. This way the architecture team can do their own extractions from my model whilst I am freed up once again to concentrate on the visualisation. The AEC modules in ADT make for very quick modeling (especially the curtain wall system), however there are still some things that are quicker to model in Max. Max has become worse over time in handeling large amounts of 2D data, and can become impossible to work with if you use any form of snaping, whereas ADT is designed to do just that.

 

Another bonus is when ever I have a file corruption in Max I know that I can quicly and easily reconstruct the Max file again, as all the 3D information is still intact as DWG.

[cdos00]

Nice John. I agree. I believe if you only work in the little bubble world of viz, then modeling exclusively in MAX is fine. However, NONE of us only work in that bubble. File link is good, as is Autodesks acquisition of software and the integration of those software packages into a common workflow.

[John Dollus]

Wow. Great responses. The variety of workflows is very interesting to me. I started out many years ago banging out AutoCAD 10 3d models and spent the last several years in a Max-centric world so have become equally as comfortable in Max as I am with AutoCAD. Of course, throw ADT into the mix and now you have nested grids inside of nested grids which are inside of more nested grids - ugh - but I honestly wouldn't create a curtainwall any other way at this point. Still, once the DWG is in Viz/Max, it pains me a bit to have to launch another app just to make a simple change that would take seconds to do in Max.

Better yet, how about implementing the geometry replacement features from the DWG importer Lightscape used? That way, certain blocks within the DWG files would be replaced with standard Max objects or light assemblies after importing to really capitalize on assets.

Thanks again for all the great replies!

[Tim Nelson]

John, if it's just simple changes you need to make to mesh that is linked, you can clone a part of the mesh, which will then make the clone a regular editable mesh. Then you can hide or freeze the linked mesh and do all of your editing on the cloned mesh. That way you wouldn't necessarily need to keep going back & forth between programs.

[alekzab]

i think i was the one that post the "file link discussion". my office uses adt and renders with max. the adt models are bims that serve the construction document phase of the project. then this model can be taken to the rendering enviroment. the problem i have is max 6 doesnt have the file link manager like the one in viz. so im exploring this workflow, it looks like we need to upgrade.

 

but guys, lets talk about the bumps in road. is anyone getting slowdown or unstableness by the workflow? lets hear some stories

 

thank you.

 

alex

[Tommy L]

Im having real problems using revit geometry in max8. Dont know why, it just results in a very large file. Each object is broken down into faces and i dont know how to expell extraneous uinformation. When the revit geometry is turned off, the file handles fine. Admittedly its a big scene anyway (3 million polys) and im a revit novice, so maybe my 2 cents in this discussion is not relevent.

 

That aside, Ive used viz/autocad file-link for years and its great. Recently upgraded to max 8 and its slick. Dont know why the previous releases of max never included the file-link.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Im having real problems using revit geometry in max8. Dont know why, it just results in a very large file. Each object is broken down into faces and i dont know how to expell extraneous uinformation. When the revit geometry is turned off, the file handles fine. Admittedly its a big scene anyway (3 million polys) and im a revit novice, so maybe my 2 cents in this discussion is not relevent.

 

That aside, Ive used viz/autocad file-link for years and its great. Recently upgraded to max 8 and its slick. Dont know why the previous releases of max never included the file-link.

 

i only have a little experience with this. mainly using a massing model. i am hoping it is seemless, but i only expect to be able to use the walls, and potentially the floor, maybe a few roofs, but little else.

 

...but anyway, did you use the predifened revit presets with FileLink?

[Ray]

I've made minor changes in max/viz on a linked object without cloning. It is possible to edit the linked object's vertices, etc. as you would a native 3d object. But I have run into a problem--sometimes after updating the linked file, some of the vertices are whacked out and I have to put them back in place. Cloning would prevent that, but would the clone update if something was changed in the autocad model?

[Tim Nelson]

I've made minor changes in max/viz on a linked object without cloning. It is possible to edit the linked object's vertices, etc. as you would a native 3d object. But I have run into a problem--sometimes after updating the linked file, some of the vertices are whacked out and I have to put them back in place. Cloning would prevent that, but would the clone update if something was changed in the autocad model?

No, the cloned mesh would not update if you change the cad model, because by then it is an un-instanced mesh.

 

Edit mesh modifiers work fine on linked geemetry, but as you said, once you change the model and reload it, your edit mesh modifier will really mess it up. Better to just clone it if you want to edit in Max.

[Justin Hunt]

The biggest problem I have had with FLM is in Max8 and loosing material assignments and changes to materials that are brought in from ADT.

 

Basically whenever the model is updated all the native ADT materials revert to their original state and or are unassigned. I have worked this through with AME and it is a known bug, although no official fix has been released or a timeframe of one been given.

 

The issue has more or less been resolved with SP2 and simple work around. DONT use ADT materials, only us Max materials. Since we have worked this out FLM is rock solid. And I do use and abuse the FLM.

 

As to the Edit mesh/poly modifyer screwing up the model on refreash, if the modifications are minor then the mesh should be ok, but if there are major changes (eg a bunch of chamfered edges and extruded faces) then it is understandable that the mish would be messed up.

 

I have only worked with one revit model and I can concour that the meshes are heavy. I have found that if I weld verticies on linking then the faces are brought in as objects. My biggest problem is that each window, frame or screen comes in a individual blocks once its exported from Revit as DWG. I think I must be doing something wrong and any advice would be a great help.

 

JHV

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

No, the cloned mesh would not update if you change the cad model, because by then it is an un-instanced mesh.

 

Edit mesh modifiers work fine on linked geemetry, but as you said, once you change the model and reload it, your edit mesh modifier will really mess it up. Better to just clone it if you want to edit in Max.

 

..along the same line, i was trying to work a way to apply a boolean subtraction in max using to objects created in anoter program. it worked in the tests, but failed when actually put to use. i am not sure why. when i get a chance, i am going to look into it more, because it would be useful for the way i work.

[brianzajac]

Travis,

Have you tried subdividing your mesh to remove all elongated faces?

 

Our office doesn't use File Linking at all, but like everyone it has a lot to do with preference. We don't model in AutoCAD at all and much of our work is done with lofts so that we can easily update models as the linework changes.