Bad experience with cheap architect

[lecameleon]

LOL that is right.. I was going through the thread for the same reason.. no one has ever mentioned what the ideal should be..

And if I may add my $0.02 one of the reasons the rendering business is so bad is because of software piracy.. In the middle east and most of asia pirated software is the norm rather than the exception.. (Oh yeah, all those nifty plugins and renderers and 3rd party goodies..).. so with little investment, the newbie here need not worry about bidding really low.. and you know.. the clients really dont bother about "super-duper" quality anymore.. if it is presentable it is fine.. and worse, the bloody millions who want to "break into" 3d animation.. with half-baked knowledge.. going around advertising themselves as "3D artists".. bah!!!!!!!!!!..

 

There I have said it.. lost a few pounds saying it..

[creativeway]

Hi there,

 

I guess we all have been thru situations like that. But I had a friend that said to me once: -Once you get a prize calculation, you better add 30% for later discounts and missunderstandings!! Clever huh .

On the other hand if you loose some time making a decent proposition, describing your intervention, and mentioning clearly what does the architect has to provide, and eventualy mentioning that: "In case of not providing the model correctly, the client will be charged for 30$/hour modeling." you will get rid off alot of anoyings.

Hope I've ben an help to you .

 

Good luck next time (or better preparation)

[Jim Mann]

the clients really dont bother about "super-duper" quality anymore.. if it is presentable it is fine.. and worse, the bloody millions who want to "break into" 3d animation.. with half-baked knowledge.. going around advertising themselves as "3D artists".. bah!!!!!!!!!!..

 

There I have said it.. lost a few pounds saying it..

 

Good point, although I would argue that the vast majority of enquiries come from individuals who have a reasonable threshold of understanding what is crap and what isn't. I think the big problem is their understanding of value i.e. knowing how much effort and skill is required to put together even a single image but also knowing how much a decent image is worth in terms of marketing, profile and publicity. Last week I had an enquiry about re-doing a shot of an open air restaurant because it didn't look real and they really liked the examples on my website. When I told him what I thought the cost would be (and I didn't think it was high) the guy said that his budget was £150. Do you laugh, commiserate or swear on these occasions?

 

Know your worth and hold fast!

[carlangas]

Rule Number One:

All Architects are Cheap

At some point (sooner rather than later) you just have to bite the bullet and tell those kinds of clients to go stuff themselves. Honestly.

 

how exactly do you go about on telling a client that? I mean I want to be politically correct and cant be brutally honest. Do I just over price my work for this individual so he just wont accept it looks for another person to do the work for him? I am talking about being in a situation where a certain job gives you more problems than you think its worth (having done a previous nightmare project with this same client), and thus you want to just avoid that client alltogether.

 

hope im explaining myself...

[colinsmith]

I've heard of someone litterally listing a PITA item of 40% or something in the estimate for that client.

 

PITA= Pain In The Ass ;-)

 

 

On the other hand, tell them "the price would normally be $X, but we are super busy with good projects just now, and to take on your work and to do it to a level that meets our usual quality I'd have a ton of extra costs. If you're still interested we could do it for $2X, but we'd need 50% in advance"

[ihabkal]

how exactly do you go about on telling a client that? I mean I want to be politically correct and cant be brutally honest. Do I just over price my work for this individual so he just wont accept it looks for another person to do the work for him? I am talking about being in a situation where a certain job gives you more problems than you think its worth (having done a previous nightmare project with this same client), and thus you want to just avoid that client alltogether.

hope im explaining myself...

Well, In a couple of days it would be one year for me outside the US, I was an employee there, now in Lebanon I run my own business. I did dozens of projects for out of Lebanon clients and I only have worked with 4 Lebanese clients. I had to say to two of these clients to go ride on the back of someone else. Say NO to everything you don't like to work on or if the fees are low. Do not be like me, trying to please people of fear they wouldn't hire you again. if they pay too low you don't want them to hire you again in the first place. for example one of these ass-clients had me do 9 interiors for a rich saudi prince for $250 each. it took me 4 months with him changing his mind every day and making me redo stuff. at the end I delievered and his client loved them. and weeks later he came back with changes. So I told him I used to charge $2500 per interior when I was in the U.S. He probably didn 't believe me becasue he kept sending messages and calling but at the end I made him understand that I would never ever work with him again. another client came and promised me a $15,000 animation if I do a couple of renderings first to show the board of directors the project. and after 2 months of changes I told him I am no longer doing any renderings for Lebanese clients. you know what he did? he called a few days later saying he wants to give me a second chance to do those changes for $60....what the F#@$%!!!!

Sometimes I want to grab an axe and go on a killing spree...

And some people here when you go and introduce yourself and show your work they say : we thought you were a larger corporation from your samples but you're on your own you're small. yeah I had some a$$hole say that to me once.

Rule number one: SAY NO

Rule number two: Don't take crap from anyone

Rule number three: if they want to ride you just tell them to go F#$%# themselves

Do not be shy anymore, do not get intimadated, do not let your need to fit in and treat people with a helpful attitude turn you into a donkey that everyone could ride....

[carlangas]

yeah, the funny thing is that I got an email from this individual asking to do some work work for him and hes asking "can you make it look realistic this time?, not like the work youve done before" that he needs super high quality.... so it sort of amused me but irritates me at te same time. I dont know if hes just expecting me to say "well since I cant meet your expectations Ill just give you my work for half off!!!.

 

:confused:

[Vince Paske]

I think the most important lesson this thread can offer is to have a highly detailed contract that is a signed legal aggreement. Go over it with your potential client, explain the process - "when" they'll see "what" progress so you can further proceed.

This is a business, everyone should treat it the same way other professionals do, and handle charging in the same professional fashion.

By enjoying what we do so much, we sometimes let things like "written contracts" elude us, which eventaully hurts us not only by having problems getting paid - but by the perception people have of the Design Visualization community as a whole.