At a 3D Program Crossroads...(LW vs MAX)

[RyanSpaulding]

We're looking at upgrading rendering progs. Are there any CLEAR advantages to either of these for Arch Vis? It will be doing stills and animations.

 

And if anyone has experience with both and would like to chime in, that'd be cool too. I know one isn't "better" than the other...but am curious as to people's thoughts.

 

Thanks in advance.

[iancamarillo]

As a loyal Lightwaver, I'd have to say that using RPC's in max is a little eaiser. BUT, I have not done much work with RPC's in Lightwave nor have I seen any usefull tutorials. More people use max so you'd find info faster but, I believe I can get quicker, better looking results from Lightwave.

[Parker1]

- Model in MICROSTATION V8-2004

 

- Link to MAX 8 for texturing/lighting/cameras

 

- Render out with VRay

 

- Post Process with ADOBE PHOTOSHOP CS2

 

SEND TO CLIENT FOR HUGE SMILES!

[IC]

I've used both and prefer LW but that's purely a personal preference.

Max has a huge user base in arch viz and excellent 3rd party rendering options.

 

LW on the other hand is much cheaper and has FPrime which is the best thing that's ever happened to my workflow.

 

For reference to high quality Lw viz check out the work of Cityscape or Paradigm or these guys..........

 

http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/community/lightwave/smit/1.html

[RobMc]

I've recently purchased max8 and vray after being a LW user for many years. Here are my thoughts -

 

LW with Fprime - Excellent for exterior stuff. Procedural texture engine within lightwave is really fantastic (I miss this a lot) plus lots of good free stuff available from a friendly user base. Fprime makes previewing lighting and materials an interactive experience (saves sooo much time.... I miss this too) BUT - really slow for generating GOOD hires interiors. LW needs it's radiosity engine updating IMO.

 

Max with Vray - Super sexy crisp and fast GI renders. Not many standard procedural textures with max though. No fast preview (god I need fprime for max!) Materials editor not as good/easy to use as LW.

 

IMO if you're after the ultimate in image quality with speed then Max + Vray is the way to go (although much more expensive).

 

Oh, by the way, I do all my modelling in Rhino/Modo so I can't give you any advice on they compare modelling wise... sorry.

 

Rob.

[IC]

BUT - really slow for generating GOOD hires interiors. LW needs it's radiosity engine updating IMO.

 

 

The engine has been rewritten for Release 9 which I think has just been released in the US.

 

Saying that, I don't have a problem getting (what I feel are) quality interiors from FPrime.

But then that's old ground-LightWave needs to be improved and apparently it has been. Time will tell.

[John Dollus]

What about Kray for Lightwave?

[warprat]

Hello, as for me I am constantly faced with both apps, I mainly use Lightwave+fprime, which I feel is great for It's speed. with lightwave u can model stuff in no time it's just so straight forward. Then the modeller and layout concept really helps with file sizes. Then u render with frpime supe fast I would say for the kind of quality u get, and as for photorealism, well I have seen some pretty magnificent renders from fprime, maybe its no maxwell or Vray but pretty close. Personally I just cant get over the realtime renders fprime gives. I just really hope LW9 has some super improvements to show for.

 

As for Kray well I have tried it a little and when it done the scanline thing I really got a bit turned off But still have it and twitching with it. other than that Kray can come up with some mighty renders too. Not bad not bad at all.

 

3Dmax+vray, A software with a really big user base. So that makes it all the more easier to get info. Lighting my god the ampount of settings u get, as a matter of fact the amount of settings u have in 3Dmax is unbelievable sometimes. Plus u can get IES lighting, I really don't know how to do that with lightave. A really fab thing to have. rendering well Everybody has seen Vray output and well all I can say Is how much more realistic do you need an image to be? Plus u don't wanna use Vray?, Then use maxwell if u like or a couple of other Big named renderes!

 

After all that all I can say is which ever you are comfortable with.

 

Cheers.

[Pavlov]

As i stated on other forums, and as b-tester, i can say upcoming Kray is nearly as fast as Vray in lot of situations, and even *faster* in some.

Respect current demo, it's easier to setup and much, much faster thanks to Multitrheading and many optimization to all passes, from Lightmapping to FG, to AA. Current beta already features instancing and Motion Blur.

Not still a full Vray substitute since some features still lack, like IES lights and displacement, but they will come in next releases. Surely, a superfast, robust and powerfull GI engine with a very smart caching system which also bring to LW a very fast GI rendering in animation.

 

Paolo

[John Dollus]

From observation only, it seems to me that Lightwave gives a more artistic approach. The shader capability is really powerful. With the Max and Vray combo, your renderings will look realistic but they also look just like a lot of other's work. I haven't seen very many Vray interiors that have been done well when there are no windows such as a lecture hall or performing arts hall. Lightwave 9 is $795 with Fprime $399 = $1194

Max 9 is $3495 with Vray $995 = $4490

 

I really don't know if Max is worth almost 4 times the investment of Lightwave.

How has Lightwave's network rendering come along?

[IC]

How has Lightwave's network rendering come along?

 

When you buy LightWave, you get 999 render nodes and a utility called Screamernet which distributes your rendering to your 999 (I wish!) computers.

 

It works pretty well but I'm sure there are better options out there.

[afterglow]

have used both at different studios..

 

i've never liked max, but unfortunatley they have a larger user base and that means all the major plug-ins, renderers etc are written for max.

 

you can get some good renders with lightwave's radiosity, it is very simple to setup, but it is very slow to render. also, fprime is useful.

 

another thing with max is that a lot of model libraries that are available for purchase, such as the arch model stuff, come in .max format.

 

but yeah, i think the pricing of max is ridiculous, especially when so many are buying it just because of the renderers available for it.

[thinice]

When you buy LightWave, you get 999 render nodes and a utility called Screamernet which distributes your rendering to your 999 (I wish!) computers.

 

It works pretty well but I'm sure there are better options out there.

 

I use the free utility Lighnet for network rendering. So much better and easier to set up.

[goodstadt]

I'd just like to second the max-vray combo especially with the xref capability for dwgs etc.

Most clients need A3 sized images for the day-to-day documentation. So I get away with minimal settings for light calcs but then I can reuse the light calc map for a hi-res output at speed when needed.

There are great textures collections and guides out there but making up your own is easy enough. Of course Evermotion's ready-to-render models are de rigueur!

The IES lighting combined with the real-world physical camera removes the stress of thinking through computer lighting and camera setup. Camera matching becomes only a matter of checking the photos EXIF data.

Then the light cache PPT calcs can generate those fast lighting previews you want.

Finally leave the vegetation, cars and people out of it and do them post with RPCs in Piranesi. Its not too much more investment for a lot more flexibility.

 

All programs are probably similar when thinking about the ratio of render time to expected production turnaround. Remember those long weekends spent waiting and rebooting not so many years ago! So go for what make life easiest for you...

 

All the best

Mike