MODELING techniques

[Guest Gen. Disorder]

hi all, new guy here. just to through my 2cents in.

 

i use cad for all my basic geometry. things with crisp corners, & anything that has to be of a percise form. walls, floors, rough openings, roof planes. from there i get into VIZ as soon as i can & start filling up the space with things created in 3DS. so in the end i would say its close to 50:50.

 

and as for solids or surfaces, solids all the way. i know this is due in large part to the fact that when i first learned 3d cad solids was what i learned, not surfaces.

 

anyway, id allso like to say that this site & its forums look great & im excited to have found it. see you all around.

[dwright]

I think CATIA is perhaps one of the best for that.

 

regards,

 

David

[nuno]

Hi all,

I use AutoCAD for the last 10 years or so, and i love it.

And now, i tried the demo version of revit 4.1 (full working demo, no save and no print only) and guess what? This is the best tool i ever tried for modeling architecture.

this is 100% bidirectional parametric modeling for architecture (i think it´s the first one)

JUST TRY IT...........

 

Best to ALL

Nuno

[HeDaCoM]

I didn't know when I first post that question. that this topic would have so many interest

I think there is much to work on modeling software yet... and also on rendering software. I think Rhino is great because has all the precision needed and many modeling tools... but still I don't like it for architecture. Also, there are different needs in architecture visualization. If you are working in a final presentation. You can model it with the software you like. But .as an architect.. I would like to see some software capable of modeling and rendering in realtime while being very easy to change the form of the model back and fordward to experiment freely but with the possibility to convert this model into a precise final project. Computer models can be very powerful in the design phase and there still there is much to develop. In this way I'm seeing this new software.. as architectural studio and others I don't remember (I'm not an autodesk seller )

 

What would I change for the future If I could?

Modeling with different INPUT devices... modeling into a VR scape and VR gloves instead of mouses or tablets. True 3D display systems to show interactive models to customers instead of flat screens or videos... oops. I'm dreaming. heh...

 

cheers

[CHE]

Hector,

 

You got to check out REVIT. Is pretty amazing what can be done with this software. Saludos.

[bigcahunak]

Yeah yeah... the never ending debate. someone already made that comment, but I'm going to repeat it cause its really true: We model with what we know best, we render with what's known to be good. I think that almost none of us knows modeling at the same level with both CAD and 3D, even if we are familiar with them both.

There is no one way better than the other. It's project dependent, final demands dependent and skills of course.

 

Anyway, here is what I use:

• Drafting - Autocad
• Modeling - Form Z
• Interior rendering - Lightscape
• Exterior rendering, animation - MAX/VIZ

[HeDaCoM]

Yes I know. I saw all the demo videos.... It's amazing.. I think they will fusion revit with VIZ 5. Would be nice. But still there is too much to do.. It's another windows program. The mouse input device was a revolution in software design. I think there have to be better inputs for architectural designing. a tablet with a pen is one of them. and to be albe to hand drawing over the CAD with natural inks....but natural 3D inks wikth a 3D pen better

[jucaro]

I use autocad for all my modeling and linking it in VIZ. it's very flexible especially when doing all these with a multi display system while setting VIZ to autoreload. that way, i just watch and examine the 3d model on the other display as i work with autocad on the other display.

solids or meshes becomes important depending on what i intend with the model. Meshes for majority of interior works (esp. if i intend to import it in lightscape) and Solids for exterior and misc. objects

 

Good day to all!

[nisus]

Hi all,

 

to hedacom: check out sketchup if you're looking for intuitive software, get an intuos to input data using a pen... those two together are superb for a design phase!

 

BUT!

 

Personally, I still like analogue media to design: hand-sketching is so much faster and broader.

I always felt that people designing using software only made a few try-outs, whereas people sketching literally tried hundreds of possibilities. In addition to this, most people designing on computers just draw what they've thought before, but sketching is another level of unconsiuous (?) design... You place a few lines and generate thoughts by doing so: sketching IS another way of thinking, and extremely valuable in the design-phase as you don't design what you've thought before - thought is very limited in design - but what you see growing.

 

There is one source of computer design that I like a lot: parametric/script design, because in this case people tend to try hundreds or even thousands of possiblities... But this is mainly just another process of sketching/trying imho...

 

rgds

 

nisus

[Nick Easton]

As most know, Frank Gehry has used CATIA V4 for about a dozen years for modeling entire projects but especially for the complex surfaces required by his signature style.

 

The key word however is MODELING; AutoCAD is of course used for producing the actual 2D documents, details, cds, dds, etc. from cuts, projections and other CATIA data.

 

In the past, and perhaps yet today, CATIA was the only mcad program capable of modeling the complex surfacing required by his metal exteriors...what the automotive industry refers to as Class A surfaces.

 

Nick Easton, NAA (not an architect)

 

====

My interest in design software is evident by the thumbnail included below. As a matter of interest Gehry Partners recently announced in the current ArchitecturalRecord [Digital Practice section] the formation of Gehry Technologies which "aims to improve the way digital tools are designed and used in the AEC industry." (I haven't found a digital version of this yet--this announcement wasn't published in the online ArchitecturalRecord.)

=====

Recent 3D CAD background is 2 years of mechanical CATIA and 4 years of CATIA 3D architectural design as a CATIA design contractor to Frank Gehry & Associates (Gehry Partners) in Santa Monica CA.

 

Started in architectural CAD design with a year on the Guggenheim Bilbao, resumed with the Experience Music Project in Seattle and smaller Gehry projects, then worked until last summer on the Disney Concert Hall Los Angeles.

 

Currently self-training and developing training tutorials and educational materials on CATIA V5; looking to participate in 3D A/E/C design/engineering, training and tutorial development on a contract basis with own CATIA V5 licensed workstation. Also licensed in SolidWorks, ArchiCAD and AutoCAD.

[mzagorski]

Hello Nick, welcome to CGA.

 

Damn.. wish I had come across you before now. I have just finished a dissertation as part of my architecture degree which was about how IT has effected the profession of architecture. No doubt I could have picked your brains. Oh well.

 

If you fancy a read - www.mikezagorski.com/architecture.php

 

See ya around.

[mzagorski]

Nisus - I agree with you. Sketching is still the dominant design tool... at least in the early stages.

 

The BRAIN HAND EYE connection IMHO is shorter than the link between user and computer. Sketches promote small and fast changes to design ideas.... the computer as a design tool can be too restrictive. Afterall... most people have been using a pencil since they were in nappies (diapers to the non UK folks reading )

[CTRL+X]

Autocad 2000 first, that info then can be read into MAX or Lightscape and or Lightwave easily.

[Ryan Small]

I'm joining this thread a little late.

 

As much as I try to do all my modeling in MAX I just can't help but revert to AutoCAD - mainly because I used Acad for 3-4 years before I started using MAX so it's just an environment that I am familiar with and I would suspect that others that are using CAD to model were using CAD long before MAX/VIZ...

 

Here is my list of advantages/disadvantages for each method:

 

Modeling in 3DS MAX

-------------------

 

PRO:

 

-Modeling/rendering in same application

-User forced to utilize 3ds max modeling tools which will ultimately make them appreciate these tools more - a CAD modeler will just "fall back to CAD" and never come to appreciate MAX toolset

-Modifier stack enables ease of creating/editing geometry

 

CON:

 

-2D geometry cannot be created/edited as efficiently as in CAD (some may disagree, but remember I'm coming from a CAD background)

-Snapping tools not always consistent

-Booleans not always consistent

 

 

Modeling in CAD

---------------

 

PRO:

 

-Create/edit 2d geometry efficiently (keyboard input especially)

-Efficient snapping tools

-Boolean operations are consistent

-If modeling 2D only in CAD, geometry will import cleanly into MAX and you can still use the modifier stack to build clean 3D geometry (by clean, not excessive face count)

 

CON:

 

-Imported 3D geometry can result in a large facecount

-Long, thin faces resulting from boolean operations in CAD

-Dependent on another application

 

Modeling in CAD has another disadvantage - as a modeler, you are too focused on creating things accurately. Believe me, when you've been using CAD to draw to the nearest 1/16", it's hard to live by the rule "if it looks good, it is". Eyeballing geometry just "seems wrong" when you come from CAD and it's hard to think along these lines making modeling sometimes more time-consuming.

 

Personally, the best workflow is to use CAD for 2D because I can draw much faster using AutoCAD 2D tools than I can in MAX and then once I get that geometry into 3d studio, I can still utilize the modifier stack to build that geometry into 3D.

 

-Ryan