IC Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Ok I admit it-Maxwell is capable of things the other engines aren't.... http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=390280&page=1&pp=15 I know most of you will have seen it already so you don't have to tell me that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Amazing and well done... but I don't see how other rendering engines are not "capable" of doing that. If the artist is good enough he/she can do that even without GI. Remember to give credit where credit is due... to the artist, not the rendering engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted August 8, 2006 Author Share Posted August 8, 2006 I'm normally of the same opinion Christopher but I have to say I've not seen much rendering like that before, regardless of artist or software. Some of the images are flawed but two or three are just incredible. But it is a good point to remember-just buying maxwell doesn't mean you will be able to replicate work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I'm normally of the same opinion Christopher but I have to say I've not seen much rendering like that before, regardless of artist or software. Some of the images are flawed but two or three are just incredible. But it is a good point to remember-just buying maxwell doesn't mean you will be able to replicate work like that. OK... so lets take a group of artists that work at BUF, a VFX house in France. Now take the scenes of the kitchen and the apartment in Fight Club, or take the super long take scene in Panic room where the camera travels through the floor and through the kitchen... All of those were 100% cg and are amazing. No GI... Or take Davey Jones in the new Pirates movie. Every aspect of him, including his cloths, and even his entire crew was CG. Even the most trained eye thought that it was real with tentacle extentions. Did it take a lot to time and money? Oh yeah! And maybe if you put enough monkeys in a room they can write the works of Shakespear... but I would say a good amount of experience and talent goes a long way... and the rendering engine (or typewriter in the monkeys' case) has nothing to with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted August 8, 2006 Author Share Posted August 8, 2006 I totally agree and I don't think you can(or should try to) replace talent but surely the point of Maxwell (and what will come after it) is that these images WERE NOT created by a VFX house but rather one guy with no R&D, no post production to speak of and comparatively little time and effort? Anyway I'm now defending the argument I've attacked in the past so I'll shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jafs00 Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 It's not the wand that does the magic, It's the magician!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Michael Schumacher driving a Model T races Joe Sixpack in a 2006 Corvette... who wins? The whole artist vs their tools argument is silly. Obviously both are important. If the tools weren't critical, nobody would be continuing to develop them and everyone would be satisfied with what they have! If the artist wasn't critical, every Maxwell rendering would be as good as the one shown above! I see two obvious truths- 1) Maxwell's rendering solution makes the generation of high quality imagery easier (if you discount render times and the general bugginess of the software) 2) You don't need Maxwell to make high quality imagery. Pretty much says it all... BTW, did anyone see the NY Times article about the guy in prison who made his own paints by dissolving the candy coatings of M&Ms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 BTW, did anyone see the NY Times article about the guy in prison who made his own paints by dissolving the candy coatings of M&Ms? I bet that guy could work the MXM editor. Somebody should hire him when he gets out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 but I don't see how other rendering engines are not "capable" of doing that. I thought I wrote a reply this morning, but maybe I didn't hit submit. Anyway, the one truly amazing and rather unique feature to come out of the Maxwell fiasco is its ability to pull different lighting out of one saved 'solution' file. Those renders with various lighting were probably examples of that feature. You process the daytime AND nighttime lights at the same time, then turn on whichever you like, even using a slider to mix as you like. So you put in all your lights at full strength then can later play with their intensities, turn some off, etc., and the caustics match whatever is on. I haven't tried it myself (haven't bothered with MWR in at least a year), but its not something your average render engine could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I bet that guy could work the MXM editor. Somebody should hire him when he gets out. Yeah, that would be... sweet? (sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Both arguments are valid, the artist creates the art with the tools he has available and if he is good enough great art will follow. Maxwell will by no means create perfect pictures all of the time, I've seen more bad Maxwell renderings in the last few months than I've seen good ones. You have to be comfortable with the tools you are using and you have to know their limitations in order to really make them work for you. I don't know if I would say Maxwell is capable of things the others aren't but I will say that if your goal is photo realism then you have a better chance of creating it with Maxwell than you do with any other engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phildlight Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Those images are great, and the fact is that Maxwell is a great render engine. It is not, however, practical for real world application. Did you all know that those images (there were 5 on the forum) took 7 days just to render? 5 images = 7 days render time? That sort of rules out an animation, now doesn't it. Nice images, yes, usable under tight deadlines? NO WAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Well 7 days to do 5 renderings isn't bad at all for Maxwell, it's actually quite fast especially on one computer. We're also talking about interior renderings which are always going to take longer than Exteriors. Animations are actually not out of the question, I've been able to get render times down to a few hours for interiors and only a few minutes for some exteriors. I wouldn’t say that it's not practical for real world applications; it just depends on how big your render farm is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I wouldn’t say that it's not practical for real world applications; it just depends on how big your render farm is. Keep rubbin' it in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I've got to do something to make my self feel better about all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koper Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 An artist is only as good as his tools allows him to be and his tools are only as good as his techniques Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I've got to do something to make my self feel better about all this. Megahertz Therapy- it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus3D Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Why not just try to appreciate the hard work and all the effort he put into producing those images no matter what tools he used. This dissection and slaughter of his artwork just because he made them with Maxwell is ridiculous. I bet if he used Vray then you'd all be praising him to the level of a superhero and said "that can't be done with Maxwell, like everrrr!". / Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Settle down man. I don't see anything negative towards the artist or the work here - only praise. And the usual jabs at Maxwell, none of which is against the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 ummmm... I was actually saying that I thought that Maxwell as a technology makes it easier to get that quality of rendering. And I wasn't criticizing the guy's work at all- it's great! I don't think anyone else was criticizing his work either. Read that first sentence again, Max- I was complimenting Maxwell! When you're in your darkest hour, remember this moment, Max, you lovable little meatball, you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I was complimenting Maxwell! Me, too. Last weekend I met that lovable rag-tag bunch in Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koper Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Yeah, and I complimented the artist, cause his got real technique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
u.biq Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Me, too. Last weekend I met that lovable rag-tag bunch in Boston. So how was it for you, Ernest ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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