Alfaro's Design

[CHE]

Alfaro's Design.

 

 

I'm working on this model right now (Strat, it is not my design ). I'm working with 3d Faces in AutoCAD 2002. I'm almost done with the model, the idea is to go from modeling, exporting/importing, mapping, lighting, all the way to the 2 final renders (One interior and one Exterior) I would really appreciate your comments, tips and tricks, resources and so on. I'll keep you all updated. Thanks.

 

BTW this is just a simple autocad render, I'm just trying to show you the model. ok?

 

[ October 01, 2002, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: CHE ]

[STRAT]

nice start CHE. this will be a great WIP post to keep updated to the finished thing. keep it going with regular updates and comments. i'll be watching with anticipation

[CHE]

 

This is the wireframe of the finished model. I'm done with AutoCAD. Tonight I'll import the model into VIZ4 so I can set up some camera views and possibly run the first lighting test. I'll keep y'all updated. Thanks

[CHE]

keep it going with regular updates and comments

Strat,

 

I do have some comments/questions regarding AutoCAD's 3d face modeling. I used to work with solids, but I wanted to try 3d faces this time.

I have found 3D faces hard to work with while modeling curved objects; like the problem I had with the staircase. I was about to model it with solids but I was too far into it to go back to 0. I ended up hiding the rough edges of the steps into the curved wall and the handrail's support. I know you are used to working with Surfaces, so please tell me if you know of a good technique to deal with these types of objects. I would really appreciate it. Thanks

 

BTW, yes I'm using Tailor's tools and so on.

 

[ October 04, 2002, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: CHE ]

[STRAT]

hi CHE

 

ur right, i almost exclusively model in Acad using faces and not solids. the reason - better control and accuracy. solids are fast and pretty accurate, but imho 3d faces gives me absolute control and accuracy over my modelling. i only feel comfortable modelling when i'm in COMPLETE control of my model. 3d faces will give me this control, solids wont, not to the same degree as building ur models in faces. i need absolutelly every face and vertex matching up precisly, no holes or leakages.

 

ok, modelling in 3d faces my be deemed long winded and slow but personally i've been face modelling for 10 years pluss and just speed through it. i can model in 3dfaces prolly as fast as a solid modeller.

 

about curved surfaces - you cant just extrude arcs and circles as they segment in your chosen 3d app. you have to physically face curved surfaces up urself.

for most extruded arced surfaces the RULESURF tool works just dandy. i use about 48 segments in a complete circle as a guage to my segment count. if you want further examples/explanations of where and when to use RULESURF, EDGESURF and the REVSURF tools in architectural jobs then please shout positioning arcs and arcs which are rotated off the ucs in 3d space for rulesurfing can be a pain in the ass, but thats where practice and experiance will help. tip - get to know the ucs absolutely 100% inside out. a must.

 

sometimes though i'll have complicated curvy helix style handrails to model. for this type of modelling i'll go into viz and use viz's lofting tools, then export back into acad. this is much faster and easier imho. again, i can explain further if you want.

 

btw, bloody hell, how many menus and tool windows do you have there in ur U.I. ? lol, i close absolutely every thing down except maybe 6-7 tabs at the top. i type absolutely every thing in on the keyboard.

[CHE]

btw, bloody hell, how many menus and tool windows do you have there in ur U.I. ? lol, i close absolutely every thing down except maybe 6-7 tabs at the top. i type absolutely every thing in on the keyboard.

Hehehehe, you are talking bout 10 years of experience, I'm talking about 4 years of experience plus I love tollbars I have to tell you, I'm thinking about stop using AutoCAD I don't know, maybe I need 6 or 7 years more of experience.

 

Anyway, these are the first 2 lighting tests I have done so far (Radiodity vs Fakeradiosity). I imported the model into VIZ 4.

 

Fake radiosity:

 

 

 

Dome made out of 101 spotlights

Multiplier .3

overshoot

shadowcasting on

Mab Bias .1

Size 64

SmpRange 4.0

 

One directional target light (sun)

Multiplier .2

overshoot

faalof 84'

shadowcasting on

Map Bias 0.1

Size 1024

SmpRange 4.0

 

Render time: 29 sec

 

any Comments?

 

RADIOSITY: (Daylight System *Multiplier .018)

 

 

:???:

Quality 85%

Refine Iterations (all) 2

Filtering 2

Enable Meshing size 3'3"

Regather indirect Illumination

 

Setup:

 

Logarithmic Exposure Control

Brightness 50

Contrast 50

Physical Scale 1000.0

Daylight and Exterior Checked.

 

Radiosity 0:01:26

Render: 0:02:10

 

Any Comments?

 

[ October 06, 2002, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: CHE ]

[CHE]

Fake Radiosity #2:

 

 

I forgot to exclude the ground from the last row of spotlights. (they are underneath the ground)

 

Dome made out of 101 spotlights

Multiplier .02

overshoot

shadowcasting on

Mab Bias .1

Size 64

SmpRange 4.0

 

One directional target light (sun)

Multiplier .2

overshoot

faalof 84'

shadowcasting on

Map Bias 0.1

Size 1024

SmpRange 4.0

 

Render time 28 sec.

[TAKA]

Hey strat.

Have u ever used Rhino?

i know many here have talked about it over and over, but it really IS the right tool.

Surface and Solid modelling at ur fingertips....

if u model in solids, u can always convert it to faces by exploding the thing (like autocad), except that here u don't create undersired meshes....only when u export ur model, u have absolute control over ur meshing (quad faces, small ratio...etc)

 

U have hundreds of commands for surface modeling (more than enough to fulfill ur curvy needs), and all in an autocad similar envrioment (works with keyboard commands).....u can even customize the GI to make it look like ACAD.....it's most easy to use....just amazing...(it has no prob creating helix).....if u want they have a demo i think. go to Rhino's site and check it if u want....

 

cheers

 

TAKA

[STRAT]

CHE - strangely the fakiosity renders look nicerer :/ how about some internals wips?

 

TAKA - ur right, i've been hearing shed loads in recent weeks about rhino and i've been researching into it a bit and i must admit it does look superb. i'd love to use it.

Problem is, may firm wouldn't buy me a copy because it's not office practice (whatever that means) getting them to buy me cinema 4d was a major coop for me, plus, i dont own my own pc at home so using the demo wouldn't mean much.

 

If i decided to quit and go free lancing i'd learn rhino, but until then i'm stuck with autocad. not that im complaining mind you

 

besides, i'm considering getting properly into Archicad which we own. it's basically shelved at the mo in work, but i thought why not? it is a superb peice of kit too.

[nisus]

aha... more acad-user-keyboard-guru's

Damn, do I hate mouse-miles!

 

rgds

 

nisus

[Ricardo Eloy]

Originally posted by STRAT:

besides, i'm considering getting properly into Archicad which we own. it's basically shelved at the mo in work, but i thought why not? it is a superb peice of kit too.

Just one advice here, Strat: ArchiCAD is just TERRIBLE exporting 3D! It may sound strange (and this is not a flare), but I worked at Graphisoft for quite a while and I know what I'm talking about. The model is exported as faces. TRI-faces. In short, it means you'll have 2 triangles instead of one rectangle. And that's not the most inteligent nor fastest way to work. Whenever you have to change the model, you'll have a hard time. Booleans? Forget about! Edit Mesh (or so)? Good luck! So, my point is: if you're thinking about going from AutoCAD to ArchiCAD just for the modeling, you better think twice.

[]

Rick

[STRAT]

thnx for the advice Rick, i didn't realise.

 

i WAS thinking about it for modelling and exporting into other 3d apps for rendering. hmmm, i will think twice now. cheers.

[matt_vinoir]

not to be rude ricky but what a load of bs!

Archicad imports really nicely into viz. There arn't faces, a wall is a mesh not six faces as you said. I've tried lots of modellers and for architecture archicad is actually pretty good, plus it will have booleans etc in november so i'd say go for it strat, it wil be so much more simple that acad

[kid]

I've seen some problems with Archicad to Max 4 via .3ds about a year ago (don't know the version # of archicad). The model had many vetices sitting on top of each other on import, so you had to weld them manually - otherwise you'd get line across each quad in the render, though things might have improved since that time.

 

STRAT - Have you tried the demo of Rhino. It allows to save 25 times, but apart from that remains fully functional indefinately allowing a real chance of getting comfortable with the program without shelling out anything.

 

I learned 3d moldelling in Autocad but I can't stand it now. For quick mass and form studies I use Max and for technical and accurate stuff I use Rhino. I feel sorry for all those Autocad modellers now, when will they see the light

[STRAT]

that may be the case kid, but unfortunately i HAVE to stick with office policy, even if it dont make sence.

 

Anyway, i will definately download the demo after ur say so and give it a test drive i'm lazy tho, got a url?

 

about archicad - aaaahhhhhgggg, guess i'll suck it and see!

 

cheers chaps.

 

K, on with the show CHE if you please......

[CHE]

I'm trying hard Strat, (haven't you read the "Crashing Bug" post ) AutoCAD is driving me nuts!!! Like Kid said, I feel sorry about my "AutoCAD modeler" self. I might have to remodel the whole think again, with solids this time or even better, in Max. I'll try to post some interior WIPS tomorrow. Thanks for being patient.

 

[ October 11, 2002, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: CHE ]

[STRAT]

no probs CHE, when ur ready

 

with regards to my last post - thnx to TAKA too about Rhino advice and link, i'll try it out in work next week