Workstation Advice

[Arnold Grove]

Theres so much great info here but Im a little fuzzy yet...sorry for the multi questions

 

I’m trying to decide the best system for Max, Vray and the adobe suites for Achi 3d and broadcast graphics. Thanks to a lot of great info here, I’ve come to these 2 machines: Dell Precision Workstation 690 (750W - 32bit)

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=MLB1728&s=biz

2x the Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5050 3.00GHz, 2 X 2MB L2, 667 $2,707

Dell Precision Workstation 690 (750w - 64bit)

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=MLB1723&s=biz

2x the Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5050 3.00GHz, 2 X 2MB L2, 667 $2,599

Why is the 64 cheaper??

Should I get a single Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5160 3.00GHz, 4MB L2,1333 because its faster? And if so can I add a second one later, hoping to buy it cheaper somewhere else.

I’m just unsure about the component selections and video card selection. Any help would be greatly appreciated

My budget is about 5k (my wife is real happy about that)

thanks!

[maey]

hi arnold.both are really nice workstation,go for 64bit for future upgradability.if i have that much money,i will get 4 or more core 2 duo/ core duo pc (3ghz) with 2g ram for my network rendering since u are using vray.really cut your rendering time.

[manta]

hmmm....that's funny, I was wondering how that was going to look when the new chips came out...so they're just trying to confuse you, the 51xx series are the new chips based on the core2 duo...the rest are the old P4 netburst chips, there is a tremendous difference, thats why it costs over $500 more to drop down to 2.66GHZ...

 

I could be a little off on this, but I would think the 51xx series are twice as fast as the 50xx series...

 

Here are some benchmarks of the old P4's (same core as the 50xx) versus the core2 duo's (same core as 51xx) you can clearly see they get their a** kicked...

 

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=11

 

To make along story short, the slowest 51xx will obliterate any 50xx...

 

hope that helps

[moshenko]

As manta said, avoid the 50xx series if at all possible. They are power-hungry underperformers and I think Dell is just trying to clean house before the 51xx's really take hold. For a few hundred $$ extra you could get dual 5120's that would utterly destroy the older series (and most dual Opterons as well, from what I've read).

[landrvr1]

As manta said, avoid the 50xx series if at all possible. They are power-hungry underperformers and I think Dell is just trying to clean house before the 51xx's really take hold. For a few hundred $$ extra you could get dual 5120's that would utterly destroy the older series (and most dual Opterons as well, from what I've read).

 

I was stunned to hear that the AMD Opterons have gotten a serious butt kickin, but it's true. Check out this benchmark test. The entire review is fascinating:

 

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=xeon5160&page=6

 

Every test shows the new Intels absolutely mopping the floor with the Opterons....

[Arnold Grove]

Awsome guys thanks so much. Thankyou for the reviews as well. I had no idea about the difference between the 50's and 51's. I was ready to shell out the bucks,,,I would been hosed.

 

Going for the 64bit, upgrading to the 5120 is only $60..great I can swing that, but its another $409 to add another...what the heck? why so much for an add?

 

I can do $2,719 for a quad dc 5120 (Eddie Van Halen model) should I live with this and get a better vid card???? I think the most I can afford is the best answer. thanks guys

[Arnold Grove]

I wish Max and Vray ran on a Mac

[moshenko]

Going for the 64bit, upgrading to the 5120 is only $60..great I can swing that, but its another $409 to add another...what the heck? why so much for an add?

 

You should really be asking "Why are the crappy 50xx models so expensive if I can get a 5120 processor for just $409?" The $60 is a price to upgrade from whatever the default configuration is, not the price of a full processor.

 

I wish Max and Vray ran on a Mac

 

They do. See this: http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/18574-new-mac-intel-workstation.html (among others).

[pixelbill]

hmmm....that's funny, I was wondering how that was going to look when the new chips came out...so they're just trying to confuse you, the 51xx series are the new chips based on the core2 duo...the rest are the old P4 netburst chips, there is a tremendous difference, thats why it costs over $500 more to drop down to 2.66GHZ...

 

I could be a little off on this, but I would think the 51xx series are twice as fast as the 50xx series...

 

Here are some benchmarks of the old P4's (same core as the 50xx) versus the core2 duo's (same core as 51xx) you can clearly see they get their a** kicked...

 

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=11

 

To make along story short, the slowest 51xx will obliterate any 50xx...

 

hope that helps

Don't forget that this benchmark is to compare with the old Xeons and "old" AMD core, the Opteron has been around for almost three years now whithout a competitor.

To bench something thats 3 years old is unjustify for AMD Opteron. But the good news is AMD had just release the Socket F , the next-gen Opteron so I think you should wait till the dust settled B4 crowning the 5100 Xeons.

I too is in the market for a workstation, but rather wait till around Xmas maybe the price will dropped in this sector.

Don't get me wrong I'm not an Intel basher, the Woodcrest base Xeon is an excellent chip but the only downside is its only support FB DIMM RAM (abit too expesiveimo).

[manta]

How come there are'nt any reviews on socket F, I thought you were joking about it being released already, but they are, you can buy them at newegg.com, so what's up with socket F ??

[tecton3d]

How come there are'nt any reviews on socket F, I thought you were joking about it being released already, but they are, you can buy them at newegg.com, so what's up with socket F ??

 

just a guess, but it seems like AMD isn't giving the SKT F stuff the press time that the dualcore 940's got because, despite being the latest offering from AMD ~ the F parts are still slower than woodcrest. It's kinda like not boasting about being #2... if you can't say anything good -- then don't say anything at all : )

 

AMD will keep quiet until their quadcore skt F parts are released (sometime '07) and then you'll see them take a little more of the media limelight since their chip design scales better (theoretically with quadcore but proven with dualcore 940's) with multiple cores on the same mobo than Intel's.

 

... just my $.02

[Geoffc]

arnold, give these guys a call and talk to a salesman. tell them what you want to spend, do, and future upgradeability.

 

http://www.boxxtech.com

[Arnold Grove]

Hey Bill,

 

I wish I could wait but I have some freelance on the table (broadcast design) I have to get out the door, and I want to migrate to achitectual 3d but the BD projects pay the bills for now.

 

So thats why I want the best system I can afford, Ill use the Adobie suite and EI and Lightwave for for titles and BD, but I am buying Max and VRay in the next few weeks along with a new system for the changeover

 

moshenko and manta, thanks for the guidance. So what do you guys think of the quad dc 5120 for Max and VRay...(Im sure its enough for broadcast design) but I will want to render NTSC and PAL animations using max and ray.

 

thanks for putting up with me guys! A round of beers on me:p

[AJLynn]

As a recent Core2 Duo adopter, I am very impressed with the new Intel tech. Go for it. When choosing a vendor, make sure to consider price vs service - Boxx gets you very impressive customer service, but it's very expensive, so compare it to Dell, Xi and even Apple (the Mac Pro running Bootcamp will run XP Pro, XP 64 is not yet supported but will be by the time the next MacOS comes out).

[Arnold Grove]

Now Im really confused...what's the difference between the DUAL CORE and the CORE DUO?

 

thanks to all the great advice, Im looking at the 5120 quad for max and vray but also broadcast design work (which pays the bills)

[Arnold Grove]

Thanks AJ, Im checking the BOXX site now.

[AJLynn]

Dual Core is a generic term for CPUs that have 2 processors in a packaging that only uses one motherboard socket. (Before dual cores you needed a two-socket motherboard to get 2 processors.) Athlon64X2, some Opterons, Turion64X2 some PowerPC G5s, Pentium D, some Xeons, Core Duo and Core 2 Duo are all dual cores. Core Duo is Intel's line of dual core chips code named Yonah that are basically a dual core Pentium M with some improvements, that are in some laptops and the new iMac and Mac Mini. Core 2 Duo is a slightly newer line of Intels including Allendale, Conroe and Merom, that are basically Core Duos with some improvements and 64 bit tech. Xeon 51xx is the Xeon version of the Core 2 Duo, which have a different socket and can go in dual-socket motherboards. (These are also used in the Mac Pro.) So I'm saying the new Xeons sound like a good idea, because I'm impressed with the Core 2 Duo and they're almost the same thing.

[Geoffc]

"dual core" refers to having 2 cpu's on one chip.

 

"Core Duo" is a laptop chip product line from Intel, that has 2 cpu's on one chip.

 

and.... to make matters most confusing, Intel has recently come out with a "Core 2 Duo" line of chips. This technology has 2 cpu's on one chip, but is even more efficient, ie faster, than the Core Duo's or Pentium D's.

And, it is available for regular pc's (conroe), workstations (xeon woodcrest) and now laptops (merom).

 

 

 

edited to add: LOL, apparently AJ types faster!

[pixelbill]

Hey Bill,

 

I wish I could wait but I have some freelance on the table (broadcast design) I have to get out the door, and I want to migrate to achitectual 3d but the BD projects pay the bills for now.

 

So thats why I want the best system I can afford, Ill use the Adobie suite and EI and Lightwave for for titles and BD, but I am buying Max and VRay in the next few weeks along with a new system for the changeover

 

moshenko and manta, thanks for the guidance. So what do you guys think of the quad dc 5120 for Max and VRay...(Im sure its enough for broadcast design) but I will want to render NTSC and PAL animations using max and ray.

 

thanks for putting up with me guys! A round of beers on me:p

whats your budget? its it a full upgrade(from the ground up?).

[Arnold Grove]

Im glad you asked Bill because its around 5 k, but Im thinking I might have to cut back on the $$ for the computer.

 

Which leads me to a question, if i had to step down in price, what would be a good choise for Max and Ray, knowing Ill also need fopr After Effects video rendering.

 

Im looking over CNET now trying to find some info.

[AJLynn]

Step down to what? If you spend $4k instead of $5k you've still got a better computer than most. Forget Boxx, buy a Dell, HP, et al, or if you're feeling adventurous a Mac Pro (it's actually less expensive). You can get a dual-dual Xeon for under $3k, though not with all the bells and whistles. Or a Core 2 Duo and a Core Duo laptop.

 

Okay, Boxx provides good customer service, but it is way too expensive.

[Greg Hess]

I'd really like to see where you can get a decent speed woodcrest xeon for under 3,000 dollars. Even apple's macpro, which is quite possibly the best priced dual xeon on the market, quickly escalates in the 4-5k ranges with just a few selections.

 

That is, unless you want a single harddrive, budget video card, and only 1 gb of ram for 4 cores.

 

If you know of a place, please tell me, cause I've been trying to price one out for awhile now under 4k. The reason I just built a whole slew of core2duo machines for work was because it was more cost effective then buying a single dual xeon. (could practically build 3-4 computers for the same cost of 1)

[tecton3d]

comparable to a decent MacPro:

 

LianLi PC-V2000A Plus

2 - WD Caviar 500gb's

x1900xt sapphire radeon 512

Silverstone 850w PSU

Supermicro X7DA8-O

2 - 5160's @ 3.0ghz

4 - 2x1gb Gskill DDR2

 

$4525

 

MacPro

2 - 5160's @ 3.0ghz

x1900xt

2 - 500gb HD's

8 - 1gb DDR2

 

= $6034 with academic discount

 

MacPro with aftermarket Crucial RAM:

2 - 5160's @ 3.0ghz

x1900xt

2 - 500gb HD's

4 - 1gb DDR2

= $4774 + $1000 (4x1gb Crucial) = $5774

 

... in the end, you can have a MacPro with 5gb's of ram (4gb's of that is Crucial) and dual 5160's, dual 500gb hd's, and an X1900XT for $4784 which still isn't all that bad a system plus you have that beautiful machine

 

Still though with the custom built woodcrest you actually have a choice when it comes to your video card so you could pick up a mid-range quadro or a high-end gaming card like a 7900/7950GT and have a little more speed for your viewports over the Radeon x1900xt. Also, additional warranties for the MacPro are around $250.

 

Oddly enough, I still find myself liking the MacPro (and trying to talk myself out of buying one!) despite the fact that it costs more:confused:

 

The reason I just built a whole slew of core2duo machines for work was because it was more cost effective then buying a single dual xeon. (could practically build 3-4 computers for the same cost of 1)

 

all the more valid now that there are a few sub $200 Core 2 mobo's out there... a really decent option for a rendernode... me thinks to meself

 

$100 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=13-135-022&depa=0&CMP=EMC-neemail091206&ATT=N82E16813135022

$150 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=13-128-012&depa=0&CMP=EMC-neemail091206&ATT=N82E16813128012

[AJLynn]

You can be more conservative pricing the Mac. Go with the default config (2.66 Xeon is no slouch) and add 1 gig RAM, and it's under $3k. Buy 2 more gigs later when FBDIMMs come down in price. Go to the x1900 and it's a bit over 3k but not much, or don't and you still get an OEM package of Windows in under 3k.

 

Really, why would you price a system with that much RAM right now when the RAM is new and not really a competitive market yet?

 

Or, go the custom build route and get the 2.66 Xeons, a measly 4GB RAM (oh the humanity!) and a less expensive video card. I did say "not with all the bells and whistles". Of course you can't get the better-than-you-could-possibly-have-imagined-2-months-ago system on a budget.

[anvaraziz]

oh my god see this, intel on the way CORE 2 QUADRO

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/10/four_cores_on_the_rampage/page11.html